Am I allowed to compare Pogi and MvdP here, or does that violate this safe space?
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You can do that, as the segue did not otherwise trend to MVP immediately after the original thread disruption. aka, those who wanted a different quality of banter within this thread, did not rush to MVP after they got their way.
Besides, MVP and Pogi are actually racing against each other tomorrow. So there is that!
in 2024 would should see these two head to head tomorrow, perhaps at the tour, the olympics, and maybe worlds? has MVP's remainder of his already spectacular schedule been drawn out?
So the thread should be held hostage to a handful of new posters who are ready to escalate whenever they don't get their "quality of banter" within this thread?
The previous discussion did not start because others rushed to start it here, it originated in the Liège thread.
I am not discussing moderation with you. Just the facts of what happened. Now, do you want to talk MVP or are you just looking for a fight?
I am discussing the opinions expressed in this thread about what should be tolerated here. E.g.:
To keep on track with the discussion of the facts of what happened, do you agree that the previous discussion wasn't initiated in this thread nor by any Vingegaard fans?
I am not discussing moderation with you. The conversation as it happened is literally in it's own thread. It's somewhat of a tired conversation. But at least it's not a rehash of the jumbo vuelta drama.
MVP stand no change against Pogi tomorrow. But let's see who stays on the bike. Which seems like the biggest opponent of riders this year.
MVP stand no change against Pogi tomorrow. But let's see who stays on the bike. Which seems like the biggest opponent of riders this year.
This thread is going wild but I can understand, we are talking about the GOAT of cycling. Tomorrow is the beginning of a truly remarkable season.
Triple crown with Liege and Lombardia.
Triple crown with Liege and Lombardia.
Pogacar fans create invisible enemies. I said many times on this forum that Pogacar is the best all rounder rider of the peloton. I even said that one hour ago in another thread.
Now, this discussion about the GOAT really annoys me, but it's not because it's in Pogacar's thread, or because it's Pogacar. It would annoy me a lot if that happens in the thread of the other top riders.
This conversation about the "GOAT" annoys me seriously in the general of the sports, because people don't know the real meaning of the word "GOAT".
Now, i'm going to post here the definition of "GOAT".
"The greatest of all time : the most accomplished and successful individual in the history of a particular sport or category of performance or activity".
This is the definition of "GOAT". What annoys me is that people think "GOAT" means the best rider/sportsman at the moment. For god's sake, "GOAT" doesn't mean that!
This happens in all of sports.
I get very annoyed when the "bron fans" start to call lebron james as the "GOAT" when he isn't and will never be the "GOAT" of NBA.
Here is another example. I am a big fan of Nikola Jokic. He is clearly the best NBA player in the world since 2 years ago, but i don't see nobody call him "GOAT" because he isn't, and it would be ridiculous if i called him that.
I think cycling is a sport where the GOAT is well accepted by eveybody. Eddy Merckx.
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I would not argue against Merckx. Even if the era was different he cannibalized everything in front of him.
It does not annoy me if people want to talk about greatness of cyclists. It's warranted with Pogi in terms of age and accomplishments so far. I hope he stays at such a high level.
It does not annoy me if people want to talk about greatness of cyclists. It's warranted with Pogi in terms of age and accomplishments so far. I hope he stays at such a high level.
Pogacar might not have grown into full GOAT status yet.
He is, however, a GOAT kid.
He is, however, a GOAT kid.
Yes the goat title was decided 50 years ago. Some of us are fortunate enough to be old as *** and to have seen Eddy in action. So maybe we can instead use the term MVP for the current best rider.
Its Lebron or Jordan, both have incredible arguments, but when it comes to being most successfull is Russell who is no way in hell GOAT.
Armchair cyclist
Moderator
Not the case: the first diversion into discussion of the 2023 tour in the Liege thread was at 19:40 yesterday, the earliest of the posts that I hived off from this thread was timestamped about 5 hours before that. And there were many others previously, but I had to start from somewhere.
Times per my timezone
None of the posts since the one I linked to were replies to any of those before that in this thread, thus it's a separate branch of discussion.
If Pogacar can somehow arrest his defeats to Vingegaard at the TdF he can start to be considered the GOAT (assuming Vingegaard gets back to his pre crash level). Not before. Of course Eddy Merckx is indisputably the GOAT - by a wide margin.
Are you ok mate? I know very well who hacked your account!
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Regarding this discussion about people here allegedly overrating Pogačar by calling him the GOAT or a similar thing, I do think that there are a few members that could be getting a bit carried away or are using the term GOAT to refer to potential rather than actual achievements however at least some of this is in response to the unfair criticism that Pogačar has been subject to, especially last season.
We are talking about the best rider of this decade, winner of two TDF's and five monuments yet many people, fortunately not so many in this forum, just see Pogačar as the rider that 'lost' the last two TDF's. For instance, when was the last time a rider won a hilly monument and a cobbled one in the same season like Pogačar did last year? Then you add a second place at the Tour and other important wins like P-N, Amstel, Flèche and you get an incredible season and yet many saw it as a failure. In a way, I think the fact that Pogačar is so good and versatile is what makes some people underestimated him. Because when a rider fights for the win at so many top races, he will have to inevitably lose some of those and some seem to remember those defeats more than the wins, even though he still wins more top races than any other rider.
We are talking about the best rider of this decade, winner of two TDF's and five monuments yet many people, fortunately not so many in this forum, just see Pogačar as the rider that 'lost' the last two TDF's. For instance, when was the last time a rider won a hilly monument and a cobbled one in the same season like Pogačar did last year? Then you add a second place at the Tour and other important wins like P-N, Amstel, Flèche and you get an incredible season and yet many saw it as a failure. In a way, I think the fact that Pogačar is so good and versatile is what makes some people underestimated him. Because when a rider fights for the win at so many top races, he will have to inevitably lose some of those and some seem to remember those defeats more than the wins, even though he still wins more top races than any other rider.
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Merckx lost races to lots of various riders. He raced a lot. Won a lot. And lost quite a lot.
Of course Merckx lost races. That doesn't mean he isn't the GOAT by a very wide margin.
Imagine calling someone who rode against semi pros and pub riders 50 years ago GOAT. There were like 4 countries where they had bicycles
Merckx raced against farmers and postmen who worked in the morning and raced in the afternoon. It has been famously said here.
@Red Rick is right. Cycling is a different sport since the 90's (when specialisation started). Pogacar is the best rider since then and he is on his way to have the best palmares too and this season will be crucial in establish Pogi as an undisputed GOAT since the 90's.
Anybody thinks Joe Davis is the GOAT of snooker or Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT of NBA? I don't think so...
Anybody thinks Joe Davis is the GOAT of snooker or Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT of NBA? I don't think so...
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