Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[BubbaChuck]

look at the time gaps in that era.nuiff said.and now 20 pages about unpaved roads,lol.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Just looking to the Tour 2024.
Bernal
Vingegaard
Remco
Yates
Carapaz
Thomas
Roglic

7 GT winners (not in the top10)

You mentioned 7 GT winners in the top10 but a couple of them weren't GT winners when they finished top10 in the Giro 1974.
Moser
Battaglin

I just looked to this edition (Giro 1974) and you still came up with incorrect facts. There were only 6 GT winners but only 4 until that moment.

Read again, it was the total number of gt wins, not winners

 

[Charlyghoul]

I don't know why you are mentioning this.
Speed is the same?

Speed is not the same,
tyres are fatter, no cigarettes, no fans punching the favourite, lighter carbon monocoque bicycles, electronic gears, many things.
This without the road surface condition which now accounts for some mph’s difference of speed

This is why speed is a very terrible criteria

 

[Charlyghoul]

The air was thick with smog around some areas In the 60s , now there is much less pollution, team cars emitted dirtier fumes, this affected the riders health and ability to breath unhindered, now cars are hybrid and clean, another difference in wattage there

Due to modern transport more fans can attend the race, their screaming gives the riders more impetus to ride hard, another increase in wattage


Merckx was only human, the talent has been sucked out of the peloton and channelled in to two riders, the Tour de France 26 should be renamed ‘Space jam 2’

The last one is only a joke, of course.

 

[BubbaChuck]

yes off course.real reason,why eddie is goat is simply, his vo2max is immune to smog.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Read again, it was the total number of gt wins, not winners

Sorry.
However, Roglic and Vingegaard won 7 GTs combined and were in the Tour's top10.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Sorry.
However, Roglic and Vingegaard won 7 GTs combined and were in the Tour's top10.

I’ll look at total number of wins instead of winners for the tour, maybe later

 

[Peyroteo94]

Speed is not the same,
tyres are fatter, no cigarettes, no fans punching the favourite, lighter carbon monocoque bicycles, electronic gears, many things.
This without the road surface condition which now accounts for some mph’s difference of speed

This is why speed is a very terrible criteria

So why are overrating you Merckx's era for riding in heavier bikes, worse tyres,etc?

 

[Charlyghoul]

yes off course.real reason,why eddie is goat is simply, his vo2max is immune to smog.

Maybe.

Also, the many hours that Vingegaard worked skinning fish is bound to have exposed him to at least some level of mercury.
Advantage-Pog

 

[Charlyghoul]

So why are overrating you Merckx's era for riding in heavier bikes, worse tyres,etc?

I’m not overrating just saying why speed is not the same

 

[BubbaChuck]

who gives afook about meat,lmaoo.protein is needed in such low quantaties you can eat tofu,lol.ist hilarius that previus eras were literally running keto to fuel riders.crazy and than they wondered why everbody was on blood bags.it was better to eat ice cream.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I’m not overrating just saying why speed is not the same

So intensity is very different. No need to undervalue what the current peloton is doing.

 

[Charlyghoul]

So intensity is very different. No need to undervalue what the current peloton is doing.

I don’t, just want to put some context of Merckx era too.
Calling Pog the goat devalues Merckx horribly but people like what they like i guess

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don’t, just want to put some context of Merckx era too.
Calling Pog the goat devalues Merckx horribly but people like what they like i guess

You have Sean Kelly clearly saying Pogacar is more talented than Merckx.

 

[Charlyghoul]

You have Sean Kelly clearly saying Pogacar is more talented than Merckx.

One man’s opinion doesn’t make it right.
A man who inexplicably cannot say the word ‘classification’ , may not be the best to decide who is the best ‘ general classiment’ rider.

 

[Peyroteo94]

One man’s opinion doesn’t make it right.
A man who inexplicably cannot say the word ‘classification’ , may not be the best to decide who is the best ‘ general classiment’ rider.

Without a doubt. But this is not just Kelly's opinion.

 

[hfgon1]

So then why can’t people accept the new generation isn’t better ? If they comparable ?

Look at who Merckx beat in his first tour win:
2nd, Pingeon- tour / vuelta winner (prime)
3rd Poulidor -prime
4th Gimondi - won everything (prime)

In his first giro win
2nd Adorni - giro winner/ world champ- prime
3rd Gimondi - prime

His vuelta win
2nd Ocana - tour/vuelta winner - prime
3rd Thevenet - tour winner - prime

I don’t care that half the peloton might have been Belgian ‘farmers’ that level of competition at the top end couldn’t be better.
Merckx had better competition than Anquetil, Hinault and Indurain, he was still the best.

Pogs era is harder in some ways, but the competition is poor. He’s had one realistic winner to contend with.
Look at his Giro win, a 38 year old Thomas the only noteworthy name in the top ten.

In all your comments you miss a decisive point. It is different to look on an era while it is ongoing than looking on an era that is gone for a long time.

All riders from the Merckx era already have their careers finished, so their palmares is complete. So you have a whole look on their career and their palmares. Active riders from the Pogacar era still have years to write their own history and to collect wins. Maybe Lipowitz will end his career with 5 Tour de France wins and it will be imagined in the future that Pogacar was still able to beat him in 2025.

Another point is that the Merckx era was different in quantity. So the top riders were inevitably winning more races to get a better palmares. So probably winning 2 grand tours in the actual era is worth more than winning four grand tours during the Merckx era. During the actual era wins are more divided in the peloton and 100 riders are winning while back in the old days there were only 20 guys winning. So if you just look on the palmares of the top guys, it will always look better in the good old days but does that really mean that they were better and were better opponents? In my opinion: No!

 

[Charlyghoul]

In all your comments you miss a decisive point. It is different to look on an era while it is ongoing than looking on an era that is gone for a long time.

All riders from the Merckx era already have their careers finished, so their palmares is complete. So you have a whole look on their career and their palmares. Active riders from the Pogacar still have years to write their own history and to collect wins. Maybe Lipowitz will end his career with 5 Tour de France wins and it will be imagined in the future that Pogacar was still able to beat him in 2025.

Another point is that the Merckx era was different in quantity. So the top riders were inevitably winning more races to get a better palmares. So probably winning 2 grand tours in the actual era is worth more than winning four grand tours during the Merckx era. During the actual era wins are more divided in the peloton and 100 riders are winning while back in the old days there were only 20 guys winning. So if you just look on the palmares of the top guys, it will always look better in the good old days but does that really mean that they were better and were better opponents? In my opinion: No!

As for your first point , this is why I made the giro d’Italia point on gt wins at the time of the race, rather than including future, because you’re right.

For your second point, well it somewhat links with the first.
I can counter it by saying there are less gt winners in the top tens of the grand tours now, and that the quality is worse.
Who exactly are these 100 riders? There are less riders winning now than there were in Merckx’ era…

 

[AmRacer]

As for your first point , this is why I made the giro d’Italia point on gt wins at the time of the race, rather than including future, because you’re right.

For your second point, well it somewhat links with the first.
I can counter it by saying there are less gt winners in the top tens of the grand tours now, and that the quality is worse.
Who exactly are these 100 riders? There are less riders winning now than there were in Merckx’ era…

The quality was worse during Merckx era. The quality today is the highest so far, with the 🐐 on top.

 

[Charlyghoul]

The quality was worse during Merckx era. The quality today is the highest so far, with the 🐐 on top.

I know , you’ve said that now more like 18 times. Good job Merckx is not racing now, you will have a plinth and prayer corner in your house for him

 

[AmRacer]

I know , you’ve said that now more like 18 times. Good job Merckx is not racing now, you will have a plinth and prayer corner in your house for him

I know, you've said that now more like 20 times. And you are still wrong, when you look at your picture of the 🐐. Good job.

 

[Charlyghoul]

I know, you've said that now more like 20 times. And you are still wrong, when you look at your picture of the 🐐. Good job.

My molteni jersey and infallible sense of right and wrong keeps me warm at night

 

[SHAD0W93]

Pog, does not even have a nickname.


Il Campionissimo
Monsieur Chrono
The Cannibal
The Badger
Big Mig
The Eagle of Toledo


‘Pog’

Why? He doesn’t have outstanding characteristics to describe his racing style or personality.

Pogenheimer

 

[HashRouge]

Can someone please start a Pogacar v Mercx thread and then I don't have to keep reading this argument going round in circles?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogenheimer

Oh yeah, best nickname