You can only sprint back to the group when you still have a sprint left in your legs. Pogacar looked exactly how people look when their tank is just empty.
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Well that's called bonking. It's leaves you dead, which is what Pogacar said was what he felt like.
We just haven't seen it from a Top GT guy in a while.
We just haven't seen it from a Top GT guy in a while.
Yes, I honestly didn't count them in my inner list which came up rather black for the last years. Because Remco is a "new" GT Winner with unknown potential and S. Yates is S.Yates.
another great example is contador. became jesus christ once froome obliterated him in 2013.
Nah, he was just cooked. He digs too deep to beat Vingeggard and that comes with a high bill to pay. I don't think folks realize, even Pogacar, that Jonas is simply on another level. And when you play with fire you eventually get burnt.
I'd be far less inclined to make a fuss here if the gaps in the ITT weren't so insulting to our collective intelligence.
It was like La Planche 2020... except with a rider putting 1:38 into Pog, on top of Pog demolishing the rest of the field. I mean where's the sport? Where's the fun?
I said a few years ago this was heading towards 1997 all over again but we've actually skipped ahead a few steps & now we're at 1999... in a parallel universe where the Festina affair never happened. It's a clinical free-for-all & Jumbo have spawned a destroyer of entertainment.
Jonas (& his team tbh) was too strong at key moments in the race. They've overdone it.
Of course. Even in jest it's symbolic of the fact cycling is one of the only sports out there where the journey (the race) matters as much as the destination (the trophy).
It's the natural side-effect of this sport's history, i.e. stratospheric performances in cycling aren't viewed the same as a footballer scoring a hattrick in the world cup final, or a tennis player winning a record number of grand slams.
The only way to win & win good in this sport is after a hard fought race against opponents who put up a serious fight. The rest (Dragon Ball Z level superpowers) has caveats relating to the entertainment factor (it's only 'fun' when there's more than one super powerful rider) & also an expiry date in terms of suspension of disbelief, i.e. quite a few people see through the B.S. aka "the man behind the curtain". In this case the obviousness of the PED abuse. And this ties in with the spectacle (or lack thereof) as well, i.e. spectators wanted week 3 of this TdF 2023 to be the best ever... & it's turned out to be one of the worst ever.
All because the level playing field was demolished.
Amateurs are amateurs, but have you tried to do an intensity block in training and have your base crumble a bit as a result? Here's a highly scientific illustration of what occurs:
For Pog, the first two weeks of the tour amounted to just that - I mean he was full on with the limited base he had. In my opinion he may also have enhanced his capacities by having his blood bag after the 5th stage beating. That way he remained competitive and even attacked to gain time, yes, but the flipside is that it allowed him to overdraft his bank accout even more, which made the eventual crash all the more spectacular.
Additionally, I think extinction has it right: following the current version of Vingo is, shall we say, fairly demanding in its own right.
Of course, other explanations are also possible. But the lack of base definitely contributed. His climbing level this year was better than last year. But his implosion, too, was worse.
For Pog, the first two weeks of the tour amounted to just that - I mean he was full on with the limited base he had. In my opinion he may also have enhanced his capacities by having his blood bag after the 5th stage beating. That way he remained competitive and even attacked to gain time, yes, but the flipside is that it allowed him to overdraft his bank accout even more, which made the eventual crash all the more spectacular.
Additionally, I think extinction has it right: following the current version of Vingo is, shall we say, fairly demanding in its own right.
Of course, other explanations are also possible. But the lack of base definitely contributed. His climbing level this year was better than last year. But his implosion, too, was worse.
All of this naturally depends on one's views. If you like Pogacar, it wasn't fun to watch. If you don't like Pogacar, it was pure entertainment. Cycling, like all sport, is about entertaining, which, in turn, is connected to preferences. Even without rooting for a particular rider, it's the big battles and grand performances that entertain. In this regard, the current Tour has certainly produced both. About stratospheric performances, therefore, once again it depends on who is doing them and one's preferences. When Roglic stomped Thomas in the MTT at the Giro, which is basically what Vingeggard did to Pogacar recently, there was nary a Primoz fan who objected. At any rate, when Pogacar is winning left and right from the start of the season through the classics, one could say the exact same thing that he and UAE are over doing it. In fact, a certain Johann Bruneel said as much after Tadej's umteenth win this past spring; adding that they should tone it down over at UAE, lest somebody starts making enemies in the peloton, because when no crumbs are left on the plate hungry paupers start getting angry.
Aimar16
BANNED
There is no question in my mind that if Vingegaard for some reason doesn't race again, Jumbo will find someone to challenge Pogacar next year. Either they fast track one of their youngsters or someone like Valter takes a huge step forward. Maybe they don't beat Pogacar in the first year, but after a year of fine tuning they'll destroy the field again...
What they have done to Vingegaard in the last 2 years is absolutely insane. He wouldn't even have started the Tour in 2021 if Dumoulin hadn't taken a break. Where he would have had a role like Benoot has now?! But Roglic and Kruijswijk are out of GC, and boom he's suddenly the best behind Pogacar. Sure, he's a super responder, but Jumbo didn't know that up to this point? Or why were they happy with him being a random domestique at age 25?
Roglič has never annihilated the field beyond reasonable proportions which we've seen others do as well. In fact this is often used against him in many conversations (i.e. underlying his mountain sprinter characteristics born out of his limitations). Monte Lussari was 'just' a 40 second gap (+ a dramatic chain drop) with an average of 25.1 km/h versus two other riders (Thomas & Almeida) who did 24.7 km/h.
Different ITT route notwithstanding, Vingegaard did 41 km/h on Tuesday whilst the guy who finished third (his own teammate WvA) did 37 km/h. I mean that's something I've never ever seen before. It's science-fiction. The gap is just... I'm mean it's at a point where it gives me a moment of pause. I was speechless watching Vingegaard attack every corner, every straight, every descent, every gradient. It was impossible.
And it's not about winning, it's about how riders win. Ten straight GC victories with a small gap of a handful of seconds will always be more believable than a couple of GC wins with a ten minute gap. I exaggerate to make a point but the conclusion is simple: public perception of performances in cycling are constrained by suspension of disbelief. That's just how cycling is based on its history.
Small correction. He did 37.9 kilometers while Vingegaard did 41.2. So the difference is "only" 3.3 km/h not 4. He starts being 4 km/h faster after the Top 8, which is absolutely *** insane.
I was looking at pro cycling stats which has Wout van Aert at 37.913 (unless I'm somehow reading this wrong): https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2023/stage-16
And whatever it was was indeed batsh*t crazy & beyond all credibility.
Well, Roglic spinning up Monte Lussari, dropping his chain, and then still annihilating Thomas was pretty ridiculous one must say. I don't think, in any case, the TT courses are comparable, but while Vingo's performance was stratospheric, Rog's was a worthy paragone. Again, however, it's the relative preferences that determine the entertainment factor, irrespective of credibility.
Vingo's clear-headed vision on when to selectively strike hard made the difference. Apart from a failed attempt to put Pog out of commission on the Col du Tourmalet, a rare display of tactical stupidity once Tadej wasn't dropped, Vingeggard with surgical precision chose three stages to assassinate his rival: the fifth with the finish at Laruns, when he attacked on the Col du Marie Blanque and put 1'04" into Pogacar; Tuesday in the TT and yesterday to difinitively close the discussion. By contrast, Pog went deep into his reserves to net only a few seconds here and there, whilst thinking he was setting up the killer for the knockout punch. Yet Tadej was only burrying himself, over-drawing a bank account (to use your excellent metaphor) that left him short on cash when the assassin, with sardonic smile, presented him with the evening's (super steep) bill.Amateurs are amateurs, but have you tried to do an intensity block in training and have your base crumble a bit as a result? Here's a highly scientific illustration of what occurs:
For Pog, the first two weeks of the tour amounted to just that - I mean he was full on with the limited base he had. In my opinion he may also have enhanced his capacities by having his blood bag after the 5th stage beating. That way he remained competitive and even attacked to gain time, yes, but the flipside is that it allowed him to overdraft his bank accout even more, which made the eventual crash all the more spectacular.
Additionally, I think extinction has it right: following the current version of Vingo is, shall we say, fairly demanding in its own right.
Of course, other explanations are also possible. But the lack of base definitely contributed. His climbing level this year was better than last year. But his implosion, too, was worse.
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Aimar16
BANNED
Did Roglic lose more with the mechanical problem than Thomas with the helmet change?
I believe the one more or less cancelled out the other, so if neither had shipped time the destruction remains the same.
Aimar16
BANNED
Destruction? He lost 40 seconds in a timetrial which included a climb of 7.8 km - 11.2%. The gaps were surprisingly small. Btw, Thomas completely miscalculated his pace and stopped completely in the last short timing section, where he only managed 15th best time.
Considering ho
Considering how Thomas had been relatively outclimbing Roglic before Lussari, I'd say 40 secs was destruction.
Aimar16
BANNED
If he had outclimbed him, the gap would have been larger than 26 seconds before the last ITT.
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