• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

Page 154 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 15, 2023
18
36
80
Visit site
Why would he go into red when he is clearly the best rider? And your argument really makes no sense, when we saw the "I am dead. I am gone." Pogacar two years in a row at the Tour. So he goes to the limit and beyond. If he has to. But why should he do here?

E: maybe I should say I am not naive and have no illusions. But I honestly don't get the specific argument.
There are basic laws of human physiology. Merely being ‘clearly the best rider’ doesn’t make you immune to them. If everyone else has to knock it off after a sustained additional effort, then why not the wonder boy? He put in an effort today that peak Froome could have sustained for, oh, about thirty to forty seconds. That gets him a gap of maybe 100 to 150 metres. Then he would have had to do what his body and watt meter are telling him. Knock it off, recover and maintain the gap as much as possible until he can maybe go again further up the road. But look at Pogacar, look at how the initial acceleration is made and then the wattage effort is sustained, the speed constant for a very long period of time. Uphill. At extreme altitude. That’s extremely odd to say the least. Pas normal as they say.
 
They could if others could as well or if there‘s some special interference with the UCI, where Pogačar‘s so far up their arse that he gets special conditions. Option 1 doesn‘t explain these differences and Option 2 requires a larger explanation, for why Pogačar has a motor and the others don‘t. I think if the motor guys are for real, they should camp in front of the UCI headquarters until Pogačar‘s bike is publicly disassembled directly after he crosses the finish line when he does a big performance like today.
Aren't organizers or some WADA representative allowed to make such a bike disassembly for checks?
 
Why would he go into red when he is clearly the best rider? And your argument really makes no sense, when we saw the "I am dead. I am gone." Pogacar two years in a row at the Tour. So he goes to the limit and beyond. If he has to. But why should he do here?

E: maybe I should say I am not naive and have no illusions. But I honestly don't get the specific argument.
Cracking 2 days in Tour doesn't prove anything. Even with doping you can have bad days. Pog is the dude who arrives fresh as a daisy at the end of monuments after huge solos.
You don't recover 3 minutes if you don't go into red.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hfer07
Conspiracy is when no such technology exists. Motor doping in cycling is real, but without riders getting caught it remains a "conspiracy".
It would appear you misunderstand me, the UCI covering up the motor usage of top pros would very clearly be them conspiring to deceive the general public, hence a conspiracy. I do not think you are conspiring with anyone.
 
Cracking 2 days in Tour doesn't prove anything. Even with doping you can have bad days. Pog is the dude who arrives fresh as a daisy at the end of monuments after huge solos.
You don't recover 3 minutes if you don't go into red.
exactly.
Poga is not breaking a sweat at this Giro- It may sound exaggerated, but ask yourselves how can a rider have a 6+ plus gap to his nearest competitor at the end of the 2nd Week, with the option of even widening it more since the last week is supposed to be suitable for that purpose? can we foresee a 10 minute plus gap at the end of Il Giro? and you have to ask, how "weak" was hi competition ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SHAD0W93
There are basic laws of human physiology. Merely being ‘clearly the best rider’ doesn’t make you immune to them. If everyone else has to knock it off after a sustained additional effort, then why not the wonder boy? He put in an effort today that peak Froome could have sustained for, oh, about thirty to forty seconds. That gets him a gap of maybe 100 to 150 metres. Then he would have had to do what his body and watt meter are telling him. Knock it off, recover and maintain the gap as much as possible until he can maybe go again further up the road. But look at Pogacar, look at how the initial acceleration is made and then the wattage effort is sustained, the speed constant for a very long period of time. Uphill. At extreme altitude. That’s extremely odd to say the least. Pas normal as they say.
Well, because there are two cyclists that are well above the rest in GTs. I would actually make the claim, while riding away Pogacar was less on the limit than Thomas and Martinez in their sprint in the end. So after all, he might be further from his limit than the others. We actually see the Pogacar you want to see when he faces Vingegaard. His efforts have to be way more measured cause otherwise exactly what you say is happening. So it often ends in only a sprint as well between them.

The way bigger question is - why are 2 riders so far above the rest? But not - why doesn't Pogacar suffer from a calculated effort to ride away from Thomas & Co., while being a clearly far better climber.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: noob and SHAD0W93
Cracking 2 days in Tour doesn't prove anything. Even with doping you can have bad days. Pog is the dude who arrives fresh as a daisy at the end of monuments after huge solos.
You don't recover 3 minutes if you don't go into red.
Thats not what I am saying. Rather that today he never had to go in the red (as the whole Giro) - so what suffering would we expect? Vs. Vingegaard he has to go into the red and that cracked him the last 2 times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pastronef
exactly.
Poga is not breaking a sweat at this Giro- It may sound exaggerated, but ask yourselves how can a rider have a 6+ plus gap to his nearest competitor at the end of the 2nd Week, with the option of even widening it more since the last week is supposed to be suitable for that purpose? can we foresee a 10 minute plus gap at the end of Il Giro? and you have to ask, how "weak" was hi competition ?
I mean, I know the dominance is crazy. But TdF 21 (Pogacar 7:03 on Carapaz, 10:02 on O'Connor) - always listing the best other than the two dominators. TdF 22 (Vingegaard 7:22 on Thomas, 13:39 on Gaudu), TdF 23 (Vingegaard 10:56 on Yates, 12:23 on Yates).

For me thats all pretty much in line. And with all love for Thomas, think TdF fields usually also should be more competitive, yet those two still had crazy gaps to the rest.
 
I mean, I know the dominance is crazy. But TdF 21 (Pogacar 7:03 on Carapaz, 10:02 on O'Connor) - always listing the best other than the two dominators. TdF 22 (Vingegaard 7:22 on Thomas, 13:39 on Gaudu), TdF 23 (Vingegaard 10:56 on Yates, 12:23 on Yates).

For me thats all pretty much in line. And with all love for Thomas, think TdF fields usually also should be more competitive, yet those two still had crazy gaps to the rest.
Good post! I think this Giro demonstrates just how far above everyone else both riders are. When you take their lead over everyone else, it really puts it out there.
 
I honestly don't think there is some sort of "new" Pogacar. Slightly improved would already be great on his previous level. But he still might win the Tour with Vingegaard's injury ofc. Roglic and Evenepoel I somehow don't trust to be on the same level as those two in GTs.
Right, but it's all the rest. He's been on fire since February, excuse me March, dominating every race he has entered. You can't be that good, considering there are other monsters. There is something going on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Luthor
I expected a Pog demolish job in this Giro. Nothing here is new. The scale of the gap is simply dependent on how much he wants to do 6 weeks before the TdF. It was beautiful scenery though today (a bit off-topic in this part of the forum but Pog's solo climb amidst the snow covered mountains was very spectacular from an aesthetic standpoint).

The Tour meanwhile is another matter altogether. It'll be tighter & it'll be more intense. There's so much at stake (namely money) for the teams involved so everything is automatically dialled to the max - whether it's the tension & stress in the bunch or the whole media frenzy surrounding it.

The Belgian press in particular is going to be a factor this time as well (things could get spicy on that front). I don't know about others but I'm actually looking forward to July. Maybe it'll disappoint (it often does) but on paper there's potential for some real drama.

And yes, it'll be powered by current year rocket fuel. But it is what it is.