Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Froome]

The bigger question is why are just 2 guys consistently so far ahead of the rest? If Vingegaard was here they’d both probably be 10 min up on the others right now, trying to break each other. The outliers in a bell curve aren’t that big of outliers are they?

Genetics.

 

[Nick2413]

Genetics.

Same question though. It would be like the best marathon runner outrunning everyone else by minutes every time. Even Kipchoge has/had closer competition on the biggest events.

 

[Froome]

Same question though. It would be like the best marathon runner outrunning everyone else by minutes every time. Even Kipchoge has/had closer competition on the biggest events.

Genetics plus they're bodies are responding very well to some nice products.

 

[Extinction]

This 👆. Some of the other comments here are missing the point entirely. Forget about the competition, some are overstating its weakness in any case. Look at Pogacar. He does not appear to suffer on the climbs. He just rides like he’s on the flat, accelerating and then sustaining the gained velocity. Who else can do that? It’s just weird. Indeed he often crosses the line looking like he’s just rode down to the shops for the paper. In fact he did just that after yesterday’s time trial when everyone else looked like their heart was going to explode. No one else does that. Even Vingegaard usually looks a bit sweaty and breathless on the big stages.

When Pantani won the 98 Giro, before winning the Tour that year, he actually had to sweat to drop an obstinate Tonkov. By contrast, Pogi has no competition and he is much better in the TT. Gianetti has engineered a monster who needs to be brought down, but all that scandalous Arab money, which is nothing else but sports washing, won't allow this fraud to be caught.

 

[GuntherL1]

Genetics.

Genetics that kicked in after he moved to UAE? Amazing technology.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Tadej Pogacar achieved one of the most astonishing feats of the last ten years: a very violent sprint of 13'' at 920 watts, a minute gained in two kilometres of climbing.

translating from the italiano here:

Giro d'Italia, perché Pogacar a Livigno ha fatto un'impresa

Tadej Pogacar ha realizzato una delle imprese più strabilianti degli ultimi dieci anni: scatto violentissimo di 13'' a 920 watt, un minuto guadagnato in due chilometri di salita. Le sue maxi colazioni durano 40 minuti

www.corriere.it

 

[ppanther92]

He does not appear to suffer on the climbs.

Again, he does not suffer here cause he has no reason to ride anywhere close to his limit. Why would he?
And the statement that he never does is simply not true, looking back at the past 2 Tours. “I am dead. I am gone.” He lost minutes to Zimmermann, Kwiatkowski, Barguil on that day. From the same group. And looked like dying on the bike.
But if you send me and Caleb Ewan up a climb, later will also be faster and not break a sweat in the process. Tells us to beat me, he never is on the limit. But tells us also nothing else really.

 

[ppanther92]

Same question though. It would be like the best marathon runner outrunning everyone else by minutes every time. Even Kipchoge has/had closer competition on the biggest events.

So Tour de France 22/23 and World Championship 22/23 do not exist?

 

[Salvarani]

There is something going wrong here. How is it that there is no competition? Wait, don't lambaste me. But what is he on?
The other greats suffered on the climbs, he does not. It's strange or queer or however it is said.

I think I see people bringing up how he has suffered in the past and how he isnt that good every day.

 

[ivanic]

12-13% faster than other contenders, WT contenders not continentals.

https://lanternerouge.com/2024/05/1...livignos-thin-air-giro-ditalia-stage-15-2024/


read these numbers and look Pogacar in the face, he doesn't struggle. He should die of suffering + altitude. Nothing.


He is a real-time laboratory experiment, this is really shabby, where are the journalists? everyone with a secure salary?

 

[AmRacer]

12-13% faster than other contenders, WT contenders not continentals.

https://lanternerouge.com/2024/05/1...livignos-thin-air-giro-ditalia-stage-15-2024/


read these numbers and look Pogacar in the face, he doesn't struggle. He should die of suffering + altitude. Nothing.


He is a real-time laboratory experiment, this is really shabby, where are the journalists? everyone with a secure salary?

And he will still struggle with a fish packer in top shape.

 

[Extinction]

And he will still struggle with a fish packer in top shape.

I don't know, they've rebooted and uploaded the 5.2 version. Vingegaard will arrive at the 4.2-5 version.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Tadej Pogacar achieved one of the most astonishing feats of the last ten years: a very violent sprint of 13'' at 920 watts, a minute gained in two kilometres of climbing.

translating from the italiano here:

Giro d'Italia, perché Pogacar a Livigno ha fatto un'impresa

Tadej Pogacar ha realizzato una delle imprese più strabilianti degli ultimi dieci anni: scatto violentissimo di 13'' a 920 watt, un minuto guadagnato in due chilometri di salita. Le sue maxi colazioni durano 40 minuti

www.corriere.it

What does 13'' mean? Somehow I find it hard to make sense of these numbers.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't know, they've rebooted and uploaded the 5.2 version. Vingegaard will arrive at the 4.2-5 version.

They activated a new copy of Skeletor. He probably still can't ride a bike but if they teach him before the Tour Teddy will have his hands full.

 

[Netserk]

What does 13'' mean?

13 seconds.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

13 seconds.

But 920 watts for 13 seconds is not 'astonishing feats of the last ten years'

 

[ppanther92]

What does 13'' mean? Somehow I find it hard to
make sense of these numbers.

Seconds, which I don’t think is a mental stat in itself. All the sprinters do this and more. But ofc it was a strong attack, considering his weight and the altitude.

Focagno yesterday was “only” 6.1 W/kg for 35min btw.

Unfortunately no 2023 in the graph but just confirms myself a bit that there is no “new” Pogacar (or lets say - the improvements are at least overstated). 6.1 lies exactly on his 2021 and 2022 effort line for 35min, Vingegaard in this plot would even be a bit higher.

 

[Netserk]

The typical performance in that chart is not a good reference for Foscagno. Loze and Granon are probably the most comparable ones.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Seconds, which I don’t think is a mental stat in itself. All the sprinters do this and more. But ofc it was a strong attack, considering his weight and the altitude.

Focagno yesterday was “only” 6.1 W/kg for 35min btw.

Unfortunately no 2023 in the graph but just confirms myself a bit that there is no “new” Pogacar (or lets say - the improvements are at least overstated). 6.1 lies exactly on his 2021 and 2022 effort line for 35min, Vingegaard in this plot would even be a bit higher.

It has to be noted that the average elevation of Foscagno climb was over 1800 meters so much higher than all those examples. The stage was also very difficult. Those factors lowered w/kg not only for Pog but also for other guys.

 

[Froome]

Seconds, which I don’t think is a mental stat in itself. All the sprinters do this and more. But ofc it was a strong attack, considering his weight and the altitude.

Focagno yesterday was “only” 6.1 W/kg for 35min btw.

Unfortunately no 2023 in the graph but just confirms myself a bit that there is no “new” Pogacar (or lets say - the improvements are at least overstated). 6.1 lies exactly on his 2021 and 2022 effort line for 35min, Vingegaard in this plot would even be a bit higher.

I agree.

And for who thinks this is a "new pogacar", better check the last 13 min effort on tourmalet and compare with the last 13 min effort yesterday on Foscagno.

 

[Salvarani]

It has to be noted that the average elevation of Foscagno climb was over 1800 meters so much higher than all those examples. The stage was also very difficult. Those factors lowered w/kg not only for Pog but also for other guys.

Stop making sense, they dont care about those factors.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I agree.

And for who thinks this is a "new pogacar", better check the last 13 min effort on tourmalet and compare with the last 13 min effort yesterday on Foscagno.

It seems the performances of last 13 mins on Foscagno and Tourmalet are quite similar (in terms of w/kg). Obviously Foscagno's 1770-1780 m/h of VAM is much lower but really big for such a shallow gradient. Still, Foscagno's effort is on average almost 200 meters higher. If Pog is in form comparable to Tourmalet it's not bad - after all he beat Vingo on that day.

 

[Froome]

It seems the performances of last 13 mins on Foscagno and Tourmalet are quite similar (in terms of w/kg). Obviously Foscagno's 1770-1780 m/h of VAM is much lower but really big for such a shallow gradient. Still, Foscagno's effort is on average almost 200 meters higher. If Pog is in form comparable to Tourmalet it's not bad - after all he beat Vingo on that day.

The "funny" thing about that final section of Tourmalet is that according to ammattipyoraily, Vingegaard did 6.91 w/kg and Pogacar 6.74 because the draft was a significant role.

Yeah, Pogacar perfomance was similar with yesterday, and the climb was on a similar average altitude with Foscagno, plus the final effort.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The "funny" thing about that final section of Tourmalet is that according to ammattipyoraily, Vingegaard did 6.91 w/kg and Pogacar 6.74 because the draft was a significant role.

Yeah, Pogacar perfomance was similar with yesterday, and the climb was on a similar average altitude with Foscagno, plus the final effort.

I know that Vingo did higher w/kg due to aerodynamics but those estimates vary. I'm pretty sure I saw a difference of 0.08-0.09 w/kg in some place, not 0.17 w/kg (which seems quite a lot for 21 kph)).

 

[Red Rick]

May just be me, but drafting being 10W or there abouts at 21kph seems a bit high?