Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Is it not the same story told to explain Armstrong he had this special ability to clear out lactate?

Yes, or similar. I seem to remember that he was said to be able to tolerate much more lactate for reasons lost to my memory.

 

[scapewalker]

What strikes is me how even taking into account they are doping it's amazing how they improved the past 4 years and even the performance fluctuations in the 2024 TDF are crazy.

What single doping intervention is even powerful enough to produce these results? We can rule the two obvsious contender being EPO and transfusion since they could only be taken to a marginal extent and never explain these kinda performances.

Did they find some superior cooling hack by force feeding Pogacar 2kg of slow release ice slushies for peak performance?

 

[hrotha]

What single doping intervention is even powerful enough to produce these results? We can rule the two obvsious contender being EPO and transfusion since they could only be taken to a marginal extent and never explain these kinda performances.

I don't think we can rule out EPO and transfusions being the key factor here. People never stopped being busted for EPO, so we know it's still used. More importantly, for years the biopassport has apparently only been used to guide targeted testing – if true, it could potentially raise the performance ceiling dramatically

 

[Netserk]

I think only some kind of blood doping or motors could so suddenly improve performances to such a degree. I've always dismissed motors up until now for climbing performances, as blood doping has been sufficient to explain what we've witnessed, but this time it's seriously WTAF.

 

[Forever The Best]

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Some paranormal thing happened. Yesterday's performances doesn't have anything to do with the period 2020/2024 stage 11 of the Tour.

Pla d'Adet, i still can buy that s***, it wasn't so different of what Pogacar did on Peyresourde 2020, a bit better, and it's normal.

You don't improve suddenly 10% in a short period of time in long climbs due a better equipment and change of coach.

Emirates finded some new juice, a lot better than the juice of the other top teams, but very soon there will be an answer, before cycling erupts again.

Vingegaard also beat Pantani's record by a big margin (and after a horrible injury in April), hell even Evenepoel beat Pantani's record by over 30 seconds (sure he had some very good climbing performances in the past - 2022 Vuelta, 2023 Catalunya etc. - but I did not expect him to beat Pantani's record). The times on PdB just look so absurd to me.

Also I think Pla d'Adet was already very suspect (suspect even compared to their previous years I mean), and clearly better than Pogacar 2020 Peyresourde (and they already improved year to year since then but had a massive jump this year) but PdB was next level.

 

[Extinction]

Two options for week 3 friday-sunday, after rest day and some warm-up stages:
1) Pog in full control with some stage wins if he's too bored
2) it's going to get NUCLEAR if Visma & Quick-step have not given up

Nuclear is so passe, apparently were on to anti-matter now. Let's get with the picture.

 

[Colombiano Cadence]

I’m stunned there is any debate regarding the If……..there is no If…..the only debate is the what……what is it they are using.
Your eyes can tell you the rest.
Two things this season…..Pogi in the Giro stage (forget which one it was but he attacked from afar) where he was passing riders as if they were going backwards.
And MVDP in cyclocross in Benidorm, (I think), when he got held up at the back and was just zooming by the field.
It was akin to watching an adult in a kids racing.
All these riders eat properly, Train properly, dedicate their lives to being a professional athlete, and yet they looked like children v Pogi and MVDP

 

[Netserk]

Also I think Pla d'Adet was already very suspect, and clearly better than Pogacar 2020 Peyresourde (and they already improved year to year since then but had a massive jump this year) but PdB was next level.

Yep. At the very least, it's clear that Vingegaard went all-in after Pogi's attack on Pla d'Adet. Next day on a longer climb in a harder stage, he's markedly stronger and able to push more Watts in an effort to drop Pogi.

Overnight, a handful of riders all gained more power. Surreal.

 

[Netserk]

Why didn't they have the same power on Pla d'Adet?! Is it something one-off, or with drawbacks for the next stage? Was it about not tipping off the others and hoping to be the only one with that weapon on PdB? It all makes little sense.

 

[Forever The Best]

Yep. At the very least, it's clear that Vingegaard went all-in after Pogi's attack on Pla d'Adet. Next day on a longer climb in a harder stage, he's markedly stronger and able to push more Watts in an effort to drop Pogi.

Overnight, a handful of riders all gained more power. Surreal.

Yes, and I would argue Remco too. He was good at Pla d'Adet, but not far ahead of the rest, more in line with his previous performances maybe with slight improvement. But had his best performance on PdB and beat the rest comfortably.
So Remco improved, but Jonas also improved, and Tadej too. Like how is that even possible?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Yep. At the very least, it's clear that Vingegaard went all-in after Pogi's attack on Pla d'Adet. Next day on a longer climb in a harder stage, he's markedly stronger and able to push more Watts in an effort to drop Pogi.

Overnight, a handful of riders all gained more power. Surreal.

PdB was maybe Visma-LAB reaction to Pla d'Adet. It's possible that they planned it for the last weekend but decided to react immediately not to lose more time. To their astonishement it didn't work!

 

[Netserk]

Yes, and I would argue Remco too. He was good at Pla d'Adet, but not far ahead of the rest, more in line with his previous performances maybe with slight improvement. But had his best performance on PdB and beat the rest comfortably.
So Remco improved, but Jonas also improved, and Tadej too. Like how is that even possible?

Pogi, Vingegaard, Evenepoel and Landa all improved overnight. Harder to say with Almeida and Yates. The rest seem quite in line with the day before.

EDIT: Jorgenson too, although he paced the two climbs very differently.

 

[meat puppet]

Why didn't they have the same power on Pla d'Adet?! Is it something one-off, or with drawbacks for the next stage? Was it about not tipping off the others and hoping to be the only one with that weapon on PdB? It all makes little sense.

Unless you assume that after PA the stars understood stuff was getting serious and slammed their rest day bags the night before PdB. Blood or mythical lugworms, it worked.

I have no way of knowing, but plain old oxygen vector stuff is the most likely candidate for being the cornerstone method still, perhaps aderlass style.

 

[houtdffan]

Yes, and I would argue Remco too. He was good at Pla d'Adet, but not far ahead of the rest, more in line with his previous performances maybe with slight improvement. But had his best performance on PdB and beat the rest comfortably.
So Remco improved, but Jonas also improved, and Tadej too. Like how is that even possible?

and Remco said he didn't even recon the Pyrenees. That was his first time seeing Plateau de Beille.

He said he knows every inch of the Alps though. I'd expect a monopole blast from Remco Wednesday (with a star destroyer by Pog)

 

[Netserk]

Unless you assume that after PA the stars understood stuff was getting serious and slammed their rest day bags the night before PdB. Blood or mythical lugworms, it worked.

I have no way of knowing, but plain old oxygen vector stuff is the most likely candidate for being the cornerstone method still, perhaps aderlass style.

Yes, some kind of blood doping is the only thing with such an impact. So if it's doping, it's that. That is still the more plausible explanation over sudden use of motors.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi, Vingegaard, Evenepoel and Landa all improved overnight. Harder to say with Almeida and Yates. The rest seem quite in line with the day before.

EDIT: Jorgenson too, although he paced the two climbs very differently.

Jorgenson improved big time, it was all part of their plan to break Teddy. As for Landa, he may simply handle long climbing stages better than the rest while Evenepoel had a great performance (but maybe still not that outrageous considering his lifetime form and strong pacing from the climb start).

 

[Stablo]

So he eats porridge rather than white rice for breakfast and voilà, got it. There's hope for me yet...

The way Poggie explained these gains and improvents in his performances over the years at UAE, felt really ackward. Like he seemed to struggle while explaining, looking so uncomfortable. Im not a professional in seeing when people are talking total bs and knowing that they do, but in my opinion that interview is a prime example.

 

[ontheroad]

I’m stunned there is any debate regarding the If……..there is no If…..the only debate is the what……what is it they are using.
Your eyes can tell you the rest.
Two things this season…..Pogi in the Giro stage (forget which one it was but he attacked from afar) where he was passing riders as if they were going backwards.
And MVDP in cyclocross in Benidorm, (I think), when he got held up at the back and was just zooming by the field.
It was akin to watching an adult in a kids racing.
All these riders eat properly, Train properly, dedicate their lives to being a professional athlete, and yet they looked like children v Pogi and MVDP

Visually it was astonishing to see top professional bike riders being swallowed up one by one as though they were out for a Sunday spin. The speed with which PDB was climbed was incredible even to the naked eye and it was up there with the greatest feats of human athletic endurance, doped or otherwise.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Some paranormal thing happened. Yesterday's performances doesn't have anything to do with the period 2020/2024 stage 11 of the Tour.

Pla d'Adet, i still can buy that s***, it wasn't so different of what Pogacar did on Peyresourde 2020, a bit better, and it's normal.

You don't improve suddenly 10% in a short period of time in long climbs due a better equipment and change of coach.

Emirates finded some new juice, a lot better than the juice of the other top teams, but very soon there will be an answer, before cycling erupts again.

The last thing I'll say for the people that don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't dream big and I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

 

[Monte Serra]

The last thing I'll say for the people that don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics, I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry you can't dream big and I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles.

Best speech on the Champs ever!

 

[Monte Serra]

Get ready for 8 W/kg

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813149639849181681

View: https://x.com/mou55981652/status/1813149639849181681

 

[meat puppet]

Priceless stuff

 

[hrotha]

Who is that and why should we care

 

[ontheroad]

PdB was maybe Visma-LAB reaction to Pla d'Adet. It's possible that they planned it for the last weekend but decided to react immediately not to lose more time. To their astonishement it didn't work!

I can imagine that they haven't been left as shell shocked in the Visma control room since PDBF 2020. The plan almost worked to perfection but the only thing you can't control is the opposition.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Who is that and why should we care

Because he's Quasimodo. He predicted all this