Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Low is rhe new high]

We're full on in populist rhetoric. The masses want the lies. So the lies they get.

It’s capitalism, and sport is just another entertainment product it’s been done since forever, no big lies just shifting the product.

However to take your populistic argument seriously, if you go back to the gladiators and the purpose of those i think you are perfectly right in your argument that the objective of sport is basically to be to amuse the plebs so that they do not stir up trouble. Maybe not to much have changed the game has always been fixed the lions never had a chance but we want to believe they had.

 

[Mac9]

It does.

The new carbon plated shoes make noticeable improvements. Even in sprints, carbon plated spikes provide a more agressive stride and stronger rebounds on the ground.

Carbon plated spikes arrived when I was no longer doing serious training, but from my experience even a pair of spikes with 3d printed soles (Nike Ja Fly were the ones I used) were noticeably grippier on the bends and had and attacking angle that improved speeds and times compared to sprint spikes from other brands I used.

Not to speak of track designs and constructions methods, that make state of the art facilities (mainly Mondo tracks) be quicker than older venues.

Yep. Ben Johnson said he would have ran 9.30 on a modern track. He would say that, of course

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yep. Ben Johnson said he would have ran 9.30 on a modern track. He would say that, of course

Okay, thats really credible. Couldn't you just at least say.. I dno, 9,56 or something, even though thats still an insane thing to say.

 

[Taxus4a]

Say what? Pantani was very different from most others of his era. He clearly was a very good responder to doping & willing to push the envelope as evident by his alien climbing ability. Did you know that the top 3 all-time fastest times up Alpe d'Huez is still held by Pantani (if that's not alien, IDK what is then. Lol).

Doping doesn't level the playing field - on the contrary it unlevels it significantly. You have good responders & not so good responders, you have athletes willing to push the envelope with high doses and/or multiple compounds, athletes willing to push their Hct into the stratosphere, etc. IMO, Pantani wouldn't have been a top climber in anything without PEDs.

Look at LA - excellent responder to PEDs. And an organized doped team with also some pretty good responders (e.g. Hamilton, Heras, Landis, etc). Factor in LA's uncanny luck of never crashing out of a Tour & you have your best placed doper for 7 straight years. Lol.

I said he was a super doper, you answered me as if I said he wanst.

The good he was really or not we didnt now. His alliens climbing performances doent mean he doped more than others. That his responde was better, maybe, but when someone respond that way is becouse he had sopme good natural strenth.

I talked that with spanish doper Dario Hadeo. He almost recognize me in another forum that he was good, but with bad hematocric, and when he dope he fly. He is now 47 year old ans still riding. I usually broke lot of KOM of strava all over Spain and last year managed to start Spanish championship (I dont not how) but he rode without team and he was close to win the title to ayuso and Lazcano, with 46...without the resources a pro rider of the world Tour has today. That was the most amazing performing and supect of doping in the last years in cycling, al least in Europe, by far.
Finaly Carlos Verona reacted at time, but otherway an horrendous surprise could have happend.
And of course I believe he was worse cyclist than Pantani, In fact he started when Pantani was still riding , both doping, and no way.

But as well he is a good argument there is no doping today at the World Tour, or at least far from the past. becouse he was even better at 46 than when he doped at 25. Vey bad riders should be Ayuso or Lazcano if they dope today and a rider who is semipro at 46 is at their level.

 

[Froome]

Plateau de Beille is so outrageous it makes 2021/2022 seem like a slow era. This is a step change (for both Pogi and Vingegaard).

Either they got carte blanche this year or a new method/drug has been introduced. Or motors.

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Some paranormal thing happened. Yesterday's performances doesn't have anything to do with the period 2020/2024 stage 11 of the Tour.

Pla d'Adet, i still can buy that s***, it wasn't so different of what Pogacar did on Peyresourde 2020, a bit better, and it's normal.

You don't improve suddenly 10% in a short period of time in long climbs due a better equipment and change of coach.

Emirates finded some new juice, a lot better than the juice of the other top teams, but very soon there will be an answer, before cycling erupts again.

 

[bigcog]

I've missed the forum being like this ... last time was Sky really. Now we have two to marvel at ..

 

[repoman]

Sort of an interesting anecdote about hematocrit levels-
About 10 years ago (late 20s) I had a duration of blood tests over a period of about 8 months and HC was one of the things on the test, probably 7 blood tests. My HC levels fluctuated wildly, I was cycling at the time, but didn't really have a structured plan. My levels would be anywhere from 41 to 50 seemingly without reason, they'd go up, then down, then up, then up, then down, etc.

It made me think about the blood passport and how it might be sort of useless, because I wasn't doing any PEDs and my HC varied a ton.

 

[Monoxidator]

Sort of an interesting anecdote about hematocrit levels-
About 10 years ago (late 20s) I had a duration of blood tests over a period of about 8 months and HC was one of the things on the test, probably 7 blood tests. My HC levels fluctuated wildly, I was cycling at the time, but didn't really have a structured plan. My levels would be anywhere from 41 to 50 seemingly without reason, they'd go up, then down, then up, then up, then down, etc.

It made me think about the blood passport and how it might be sort of useless, because I wasn't doing any PEDs and my HC varied a ton.

I think hydration levels even affect it. So that might be a really interesting anecdote.

 

[repoman]

Say what? Pantani was very different from most others of his era. He clearly was a very good responder to doping & willing to push the envelope as evident by his alien climbing ability. Did you know that the top 3 all-time fastest times up Alpe d'Huez is still held by Pantani (if that's not alien, IDK what is then. Lol).

Doping doesn't level the playing field - on the contrary it unlevels it significantly. You have good responders & not so good responders, you have athletes willing to push the envelope with high doses and/or multiple compounds, athletes willing to push their Hct into the stratosphere, etc. IMO, Pantani wouldn't have been a top climber in anything without PEDs.

Look at LA - excellent responder to PEDs. And an organized doped team with also some pretty good responders (e.g. Hamilton, Heras, Landis, etc). Factor in LA's uncanny luck of never crashing out of a Tour & you have your best placed doper for 7 straight years. Lol.

It seems like in Armstrong's era, everyone was in on it. Nowadays, with such historic scrutiny on the sport (from that era) it's reasonable to assume they keep the doping programs for their star riders and keep everyone else in the dark.

 

[hfer07]

"When those two guys went past, it’s like I don’t do the same sport as them”
Tobias Halland Johannessen (Uno X-Mobility)

That should be the quote of the year

 

[hfer07]

Once a rider trashes Pantani's records in such fashion (in this case 3 of them in the same stage) the "doping question" by itself is irrelevant, but rather the argument is about the "HOW"....

BTW as some folk pointed out how we keep going back to the late 90's & 2000's era, YET the most obvious point of comparison should be Froome & Sky as far as contemporary "approach" to the "science of Pro-Cycling performance" to maximize the gains" by implementing "cutting edge training methods, equipment, ailments, recovery, etc"...... IOW how much Pogacar & UAI resembles Froome & Sky?

we know Pantani's "secret was a heavy EPO regiment" despite his natural gifts...

 

[anti -e-bike]

It’s capitalism, and sport is just another entertainment product it’s been done since forever, no big lies just shifting the product.

However to take your populistic argument seriously, if you go back to the gladiators and the purpose of those i think you are perfectly right in your argument that the objective of sport is basically to be to amuse the plebs so that they do not stir up trouble. Maybe not to much have changed the game has always been fixed the lions never had a chance but we want to believe they had.

relevant (retorical) question is what do they want to distract people from in general?



https://ibb.co/VC8zV6T

 

[anti -e-bike]

I've missed the forum being like this ... last time was Sky really. Now we have two to marvel at ..

"Panem et circenses"

 

[SHAD0W93]

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Some paranormal thing happened. Yesterday's performances doesn't have anything to do with the period 2020/2024 stage 11 of the Tour.

Pla d'Adet, i still can buy that s***, it wasn't so different of what Pogacar did on Peyresourde 2020, a bit better, and it's normal.

You don't improve suddenly 10% in a short period of time in long climbs due a better equipment and change of coach.

Emirates finded some new juice, a lot better than the juice of the other top teams, but very soon there will be an answer, before cycling erupts again.

UAE probably found out, mutated, or improved the juice Jumbo had last year to completely recover Vingegaard during the second rest day. Vingegaard exerted as much, if not more energy as Pogacar and looked just as tired yet came out like he just showed up to stage 1.

If no questions are asked, the limits could be raised even further next year by both teams.

 

[Monoxidator]

UAE probably found out, mutated, or improved the juice Jumbo had last year to completely recover Vingegaard during the second rest day. Vingegaard exerted as much, if not more energy as Pogacar and looked just as tired yet came out like he just showed up to stage 1.

If no questions are asked, the limits could be raised even further next year by both teams.

Natural progression of two mutants reaching their athletic prime!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Natural progression of two mutants reaching their athletic prime!

It’s something for both of them. Pogacar to increase his level substantially and still look really well on his second GT while Vingegaard coming back from that injury. Last week could be crazy.

 

[Extinction]

So he eats porridge rather than white rice for breakfast and voilà, got it. There's hope for me yet...

 

[Ripper]

So he eats porridge rather than white rice for breakfast and voilà, got it. There's hope for me yet...

Unfortunately, I can say that this is not working for me

 

[SHAD0W93]

So he eats porridge rather than white rice for breakfast and voilà, got it. There's hope for me yet...

They upped the game from an apple a day to a bushel of apples.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Let me help you understand then.

Stage 11 Pogacar was on the verge of bonking aka low bloodsugar < fueling issue, not physical.

 

[BullsFan22]

How to recover like a Grand Tour rider

Although we are not at the same level of riders like Primoz Roglič and Tadej Pogačar, we can all learn from their rest and recovery routines and implement their habits to recover more efficiently and ne ready to perform for the next ride.

www.rouleur.cc

I've never seen anyone with Tadej's capacity to clear out lactate," explained UAE Team Emirates head coach Iñigo San Millan. "It's truly remarkable."

“"Lactate is also a fuel, so firstly you try and recycle it in your mitochondria [the cell's powerhouses]," San Millan explains. "These are mostly present in the slow-twitch muscle fibres. This is efficiency. Riders like Tadej have a huge mitochondrial function."

 

[Rackham]

How to recover like a Grand Tour rider

Although we are not at the same level of riders like Primoz Roglič and Tadej Pogačar, we can all learn from their rest and recovery routines and implement their habits to recover more efficiently and ne ready to perform for the next ride.

www.rouleur.cc

I've never seen anyone with Tadej's capacity to clear out lactate," explained UAE Team Emirates head coach Iñigo San Millan. "It's truly remarkable."

“"Lactate is also a fuel, so firstly you try and recycle it in your mitochondria [the cell's powerhouses]," San Millan explains. "These are mostly present in the slow-twitch muscle fibres. This is efficiency. Riders like Tadej have a huge mitochondrial function."

I'd have more respect for these witch doctors if they said Tadej had a huge Midichlorian count.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'd have more respect for these witch doctors if they said Tadej had a huge Midichlorian count.

Maybe George Lucas was actually onto something.

View: https://youtu.be/uxIrH5l4BG4?feature=shared

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Please. You're not the most dominant rider in the world and the best climber of the season in 2021 if you are hilariously poorly trained. Be real. Whatever training he did before, it was good enough to be in the lead of the rolling CQ ranking for 138 weeks. He has gained more than 10 % power since then. Change of trainer => change in doping.

He was neither dominant nor the best climber in 2021. Pog won the Tour because his biggest rival was crashed out, who beat him easily in Itzulia. In the Tour he was only dominant on one stage when the weather conditions favoured him. Apart from that, in the mountains, the then little-known Vingegaard and Carapaz were glued to his bike.

 

[houtdffan]

Something happened between stage 11 and stage 15.

I can't understand how they go from being tired after 6.8 w/kg in 12 minutes, in 2 climbs, to 6.9 w/kg in 40 minutes on stage 15.

Some paranormal thing happened. Yesterday's performances doesn't have anything to do with the period 2020/2024 stage 11 of the Tour.

Pla d'Adet, i still can buy that s***, it wasn't so different of what Pogacar did on Peyresourde 2020, a bit better, and it's normal.

You don't improve suddenly 10% in a short period of time in long climbs due a better equipment and change of coach.

Emirates finded some new juice, a lot better than the juice of the other top teams, but very soon there will be an answer, before cycling erupts again.

to put Sunday's antimatter display into perspective, had Remco climbed like he did Sunday on Saturday, he'd have taken about 30 seconds out of Pog. He'd rightfully be getting raked over the coals here

The thing is, Remco and Vingo basically said they were bringing out the big guns Sunday. Remco was talking about dropping Vingo like he knew it was going to happen and Vingo was talking about how sure he could drop Pog. They KNEW they would do the best climbing performances in the entire history of cycling. Only for Pog to manage to do even better

Wonder if the biggest guns (the ones even more under wraps than are experimental) get deployed Wed through Sunday