Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Salvarani]

It's so wild to me. Like you see Padun winning 2 Dauphine stages out of nowhere and everyone agrees that it's sus and everyone is in on the joke.

Yet now the single most outlandish doper is staring us right in the face and more than half the cycling fans think it's the greatest thing ever.

Excuse me what the ***

He is only lucky

 

[Cookster15]

What in the world does that have to do with the idea that Pogi didn't win much before joining UAE? Again, this was the original claim that you took exception to.

A non issue, why keep bringing that up? How old was Pogacar when he came under Gianetti? Do you expect riders to show their potential at 15? Quite clear at 20 there is huge natural progression. Someone else mentioned Ayuso. Likewise he is super young so will of course show significant improvement on his earlier results when he was just out of nappies..

You can't point to pre UAE results. You can suggest Gianetti has figured out how to identify great responders at a very young age.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

U wot mate?

 

[Ripper]

It is really interesting observing the behaviors of some folks just getting into a frenzy over the pogacar wins. Full on fanboyism in the modern world is fascinating (or whatever the more clinically accurate psychological trait or behavioral theory fanboyism falls under, be it related to social identity or other). The more wins, and the more absurd the performances, the more the rabid admiration. So in the case of pogacar, the more dominant, the more certain fans are vested and excited to the extreme, while some other observers become increasingly less interested.

I find this all the more interesting because I follow bike racing and it is obviously happening. However, this is a tendency across different forums and topics, so not purely a CN or bike racing phenomenon. It does lead to practical challenges when trying to catch up on topics and there are an extraordinary number of posts (not just talking the clinic here)! And of course the level of hyperbole and trolling also increases greatly

 

[hrotha]

Armstrong was more humble than this dirt guy inside the bike. How many times he didn't attack, just to try to not receive difficult questions.

You know you don't need to whitewash past dopers and notorious a-holes to make a point about modern cycling, right? Armstrong may have been more pragmatic, but he hasn't been humble a single day in his life. You can't compare him favourably to "this dirt guy" on the bike until "this dirt guy" goes to a race and does something like, oh, I dunno, literal witness intimidation

 

[BullsFan22]

Watching it made me think of Tom Dumoulins comment during the 2020 Tour following the Planche des belles filles Time Trial. That what Pogi showed there he could win most races with just one leg. He is still using two though. It's ridiculous and boring but the commentators are still talking about the greatest cyclist ever. Instead of the farce we are witnessing.

Tom Dumoulin already saw the ridiculousness and quit. That guy was brilliant and we are the fools that kept watching and now it's beyond ridiculous. I'm out.

Longing for the Froome years. At least those years were plausible. Tactics boring but what you'd expect in reality.

The Froome (Sky) years were definitely not plausible. Some people here say that Pogačar never showed any signs during his Junior years he was going to be a world beater. Ok, fair enough, but what made people think that Froome was going to do what he did? Oh, that’s right, nothing.

 

[noob]

It is really interesting observing the behaviors of some folks just getting into a frenzy over the pogacar wins. Full on fanboyism in the modern world is fascinating (or whatever the more clinically accurate psychological trait or behavioral theory fanboyism falls under, be it related to social identity or other). The more wins, and the more absurd the performances, the more the rabid admiration. So in the case of pogacar, the more dominant, the more certain fans are vested and excited, while some other observers become increasingly less interested.

I find this all the more interesting because I follow bike racing and it is obviously happening. However, this is a tendency across different forums and topics, so not purely a CN or bike racing phenomenon. It does lead to practical challenges when trying to catch up on topics and there are an extraordinary number of posts (not just talking the clinic here)! And of course the level of hyperbole and trolling also increases greatly

I follow Asian fandoms with idols and actors etc and it's the same thing there. Absolutely bonkers to my eyes but I think people just wants to believe.

I remember how I thought Rasmussen wasn't doped when de Roij sent him home packing 🤣 Like literally I used to be so naive it's insane.

I wonder if younger age is possibly the factor both Asian idol fans and sport fans have in common.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Calling Pogacar Tiktok Armstrong was unwarranted.

Sorry Lance

He makes Armstrong look like Bassons

 

[noob]

I also have to say; I am so glad I didn't watch today's race. Seems to have been a complete farce.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Agreed

Combloux was way more insane and the biggest outlier of performance against the rest of the field one could find

I agree, it was absurd, but that was one day. Pogacar has been absurd all year, every race day, without a bad day.

 

[ashhutch1997]

For the first time ever today, I turned off the TV with 35k left, as there was no point in watching. Unfortunately I feel I'll be doing this again when watching Il Lombardia.
I was a Pog fanboy up to this year BTW, but the guy has literally ruined this season and made a mochary of the sport. All while commentators and cycling media just praise him, and not a single question is even asked.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

Sorry mate, but I got to correct you.
It was Tony Pulis Stoke team (promoted to Premier League in 2008) that was the Peak Brexitball with massive strikers like Crouch, Ricardo Fuller and Kenwyne Jones up front, with proper no-nonsense defenders like Robert Huth and with Rory Delap doing the longest throw ins ever witnessed.

When Mark Hughes came in Stoke started changing their way of playing and brought in new type of players in, as seen in your picture of the lineup. Players like Bojan, Shaqiri etc preferred to play with the ball, not kick it long and fight. So in many ways Hughes was also guilty in being a part of changing the game to more “woke passing football”.

I was massively in on the hype train of Bojan back in his first season with Barcelona. He seemed to have it all. Unfortunately he got a lot of mental problems and could never live up to the hype. He still had a respectable career, but not what it could’ve been in a parallel universe.

- - -

Pogacar?
I stopped believing top cyclists were clean a long time ago. I watch it for the show and the underdog stories (O’Connors Vuelta was good, same with Skuijns almost medaling Worlds). Pogacar looks like how Im in my mind think a real champion should look like, and I prefer a “doped, but looking like a proper champion” over “doped, but looking like a donkey”. But I hope he will face more challenges next season.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Sorry mate, but I got to correct you.
It was Tony Pulis Stoke team (promoted to Premier League in 2008) that was the Peak Brexitball with massive strikers like Crouch, Ricardo Fuller and Kenwyne Jones up front, with proper no-nonsense defenders like Robert Huth and with Rory Delap doing the longest throw ins ever witnessed.

When Mark Hughes came in Stoke started changing their way of playing and brought in new type of players in, as seen in your picture of the lineup. Players like Bojan, Shaqiri etc preferred to play with the ball, not kick it long and fight. So in many ways Hughes was also guilty in being a part of changing the game to more “woke passing football”.

I was massively in on the hype train of Bojan back in his first season with Barcelona. He seemed to have it all. Unfortunately he got a lot of mental problems and could never live up to the hype. He still had a respectable career, but not what it could’ve been in a parallel universe.

- - -

Pogacar?
I stopped believing top cyclists were clean a long time ago. I watch it for the show and the underdog stories (O’Connors Vuelta was good, same with Skuijns almost medaling Worlds). Pogacar looks like how Im in my mind think a real champion should look like, and I prefer a “doped, but looking like a proper champion” over “doped, but looking like a donkey”. But I hope he will face more challenges next season.

This talk about Tony Pulis's Stoke and Rory Delap's long throw ins is actually giving me PTSD.

 

[Stablo]

Everyone is. He is more talented and has better resources to dope

No. He is not more talented, lol. Nothing ever indicated to this, on a level playing field his at best there with Rogla, MVDP, WVA, Evenepoel etc. and i mean at best🙏🏼

Geez what a sh*tshow this has turned in and I thought Pharmastrong&Froome eras where bad 😂how on earth is this allowed to happen🤯taking the piss on everyone, all season long. Like theres one pro among all the amateurs. I love cycling, but a good example from today: had to watch the race on replay, was waiting for it (even thou I should have known better). Well when Poggie attacked was like what ever and fast forwarded the race, sry to say hoping he gets a mechanical or something 🤷‍♂️

I just dont understand how, even a forum like this, is so full of the fanboys/girls that cheer for this travesty! Even if I was the Slovenians biggest fan, I would be like well f this, its just too much, come on man!

 

[Stablo]

I wouldn't be able to tell how talented cause this kind of gap can only happen because of outdoping everyone harder than ever happened or because of motors.

This 100%! Nothing indicated towards this before joining UAE, Gianetti and Co. he was just a good junior, destined to become a pro, talented of course, just maybe become one the best of his generation and just maybe. Then this is the result, lmao🤣
This is so absurd that I really have to start thinking of skipping the races where super monster mutant participates 🥲sad but true, just check to results after if its worth watching.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Sorry mate, but I got to correct you.
It was Tony Pulis Stoke team (promoted to Premier League in 2008) that was the Peak Brexitball with massive strikers like Crouch, Ricardo Fuller and Kenwyne Jones up front, with proper no-nonsense defenders like Robert Huth and with Rory Delap doing the longest throw ins ever witnessed.

When Mark Hughes came in Stoke started changing their way of playing and brought in new type of players in, as seen in your picture of the lineup. Players like Bojan, Shaqiri etc preferred to play with the ball, not kick it long and fight. So in many ways Hughes was also guilty in being a part of changing the game to more “woke passing football”.

I was massively in on the hype train of Bojan back in his first season with Barcelona. He seemed to have it all. Unfortunately he got a lot of mental problems and could never live up to the hype. He still had a respectable career, but not what it could’ve been in a parallel universe.

- - -

Pogacar?
I stopped believing top cyclists were clean a long time ago. I watch it for the show and the underdog stories (O’Connors Vuelta was good, same with Skuijns almost medaling Worlds). Pogacar looks like how Im in my mind think a real champion should look like, and I prefer a “doped, but looking like a proper champion” over “doped, but looking like a donkey”. But I hope he will face more challenges next season.

I had an essay in my mind about the merits of Pulis vs Hughes but could honestly go on for hours and don't want to derail the Pogacar thread, so will just leave this here;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1164784024126025728

My favourite Preston player, would've been massive if he wasn't a complete basket case, turned up with a knife and tried stabbing someone when he was at Sheff United, also slapped Andy Griffin when he was captain.

Have to disagree on Shaq though, iirc the man didn't know what a short pass was, he still doesn't, I see him popping up in international tournaments sometimes, he only knows how to score 30 yard bangers.

 

[Casual cyclist]

I've never seen Rog DNF like this (it's rare). No idea what happened to him but when I see Evenepoel also quit... I'm thinking these guys got super demoralized super fast.

To me, it sounded more like a statement, a silent protest of sorts. Like "I can't stop you from running your circus, but I will not necessarily be happy to act as a clown in it."

 

[Froome]

You know you don't need to whitewash past dopers and notorious a-holes to make a point about modern cycling, right? Armstrong may have been more pragmatic, but he hasn't been humble a single day in his life. You can't compare him favourably to "this dirt guy" on the bike until "this dirt guy" goes to a race and does something like, oh, I dunno, literal witness intimidation

Obviously i was talking about the pure way of racing.

I know very well what Armstrong did to guys like simeoni.

 

[Stablo]

I've never seen Rog DNF like this (it's rare). No idea what happened to him but when I see Evenepoel also quit... I'm thinking these guys got super demoralized super fast.

They know his on a way better program and cant be busted cause of the money and position his in🤷‍♂️. And these two are huge talents, imho quite a bit higher than Poggie boy. Every race I see, makes me also more sure there is some sort of motor involved.
For gods sake, from early spring to late Autumn, two GT's on the way, effortless and fresh, but still dominating like no one before.

 

[E_F_]

Unfortunately I feel I'll be doing this again when watching Il Lombardia.

You'll be watching GdL???

 

[ashhutch1997]

You'll be watching GdL???

Until Pog attacks and gets 2 mins, it's worth watching just because of the scenery.

 

[zlev11]

they cant catch this guy soon enough. at least send him a letter to tone it down.

 

[Extinction]

Pogi did his first ascent of San Luca in 5:32. At the Tour, he and Vingegaard did 5:29. We're in October, six days after a 100-kilometer solo effort to win the World's on a terribly hard parcours, and the weather is terrible. And yet Pogi is only three seconds slower than he was on stage two of a Grand Tour. That's just laughable. We cannot do anything but laugh at this point. This sport is dead to me right now.

And all this on an operation run by Gianetti-Matxin. I think I'll go have a gelato on Tenerife and ask old boy Ricco what he thinks of it all.

 

[Extinction]

This what you get when he is doing and he is physiological better than everybody else. We already have a lot of dopers, probably in a better doping program compared to his rivals (Indurain, LA, Froome, Contador) but the gap was way more leaner for their rivals. This gigantic gap is not explained only by doping, it can't be.
Pogacar was always a huge talent and he became an even better responder

Unless he's ahead of everybody else's game or using a motor.

 

[Froome]

Unless he's ahead of everybody else's game or using a motor.

Motor is out of question in my opinion, otherwise it's something the other teams could use it.

UAE doping program is the explanation.