Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Fábio Paim was a bigger talent than Cristiano Ronaldo as a junior. Ronaldo, you know who he is, Paim, you don't have a clue. For you, the best junior=best rider in the world in the future. I will not continue this conversation, it's pointless

What in the world does that have to do with the idea that Pogi didn't win much before joining UAE? Again, this was the original claim that you took exception to.

You have still failed to define talent. Do it. Define talent. You were the one to make the claim that Pogi was the superiorly talented guy. If you want to make that claim, you need to start out by defining the key term. You seem unable or unwilling to do that. We seem to have already established that talent is not what you deliver as a junior.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Dang. I should have left that bloody moon alone. I knew some people could get touchy about that “we walked on the moon” topic. If you are one of those, please accept my apologies, disregard my moon mention, and stick to just Mars. If it is not just an emotional response, I could answer your specific moon related questions, but it would take us too far off topic.

Don't worry I am neither emotional nor touchy about it, it was merely an inquiry because I did't knew exactly what this passage was supposed to proof, and therefore guessed you believe it never happened. So I couldn't stop myself from giving a few reasons as to why I think this doesn't make much sense on relatively simple grounds. But simply for intellectual reasons of disagreement, rather than an emotional one. I am interested in your reasoning though, so would be happy to hear what you have to say about it. If it goes to far off topic feel free to PM me.

As to “them” being able to accidentally stumble upon some new powerful chemical or biological doping without any understanding of its workings, there definitely exists such an abstract possibility. However, there are a couple of observations, in my opinion, which make it not very likely in this particular instance. First, if something this powerful were just discovered, we would see records falling left and right in, for example, athletics, where any kind of EM help is impossible. If the same scale improvement as Teddy demonstrated just this year were in store, we would see people clearing 9.50s in 100m dash and 2.50m in high jump, figuratively speaking. Second, when any kind of help is applied to just the body and only then to pedals, the person in question still struggles and suffers, just does not blow as quickly as his competitors. Toddy, on the other hand, appears perfectly fresh and almost sweat-free after seemingly superhuman efforts.

Well I didn't say without any knowledge, but without full knowledge as to why or how it works, but stable knowledge about what effects it can have. This could be discovered as a side product of an existing substance and someone has a hunch based on say a paper and then goes on trying it out on somebody. I mean normal ethics guidelines as to how to proceed with experiments on humans are suspended when it comes to doping anyways.

But be that as it may: the motor doping would only explain some of the changes in performance we have seen imo, because this new speed thing did not start this season, or last season, but roundabout 2020. So the jump in performance this year might be explained with it. Also the question still remains; if they are using motors (not just Pogacar as the only rider doing so), then how come that Pogacar is so absurdely dominant still? If say Vigegaard and Pogacar both have +50 watts, it even benefits Vingegaard more because he is lighter, or lighter climbers in general for that matter. Yet what we see is Pogacar riding everybody of his *** wheel. Is he the only one using a motor then? Does he use a better motor? Does it even matter when a lot of them are using it, and would it not be more astonishing how dominant he is because his relative win in watts/kg from a motor would be lower than Skeletors or Remcos? That's just a few questions that come immediatly to mind.

So I personally choose to remain riddled by what's going on. Hell, maybe it's even the fume breathing thing plus more nutrition.

 

[snipeheem]

Fabio Paim was never a bigger talent than Ronaldo. It was just a stupid propaganda by the portuguese media at the time.

Fabio paim once said, he had more talent than Ronaldo, and the media inflationed those affirmations. Now he is doing porn movies, maybe he has more talent than ronaldo in that area.

Now, Remco had more talent than Pogacar in junior races.

Check a guy named Bojan Krkic and look what people used to say about him, look at his stats as junior

 

[vwpe]

Pogacar won TDF at age 20 but he is not talented. I genuinly hope some of you are just having a giggle cause theres not much else to say at one point.🤣

Go to a race, ask every pro they know more than the average Joe. But if were going by he is not the most talented in centuries not sure about the credibility of some here which you like to pose on others. Its common knowledge withing cycling what he is already and has for a long time, dont fool yourself.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I've never seen Rog DNF like this (it's rare). No idea what happened to him but when I see Evenepoel also quit... I'm thinking these guys got super demoralized super fast.

The majority of some terrific riders didn't (bother to) finish, I'd love it if it was some kind of a silent protest or something.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

This is truly magical. A few pages ago in this thread, we were being told that Pogi was actually always the biggest talent and was already amazing as a junior. Now, we're suddenly being told that what you do as a junior does, in fact, not even matter. Real-time shifting of the goalposts, absolutely amazing to witness.

 

[E_F_]

The Pogster has now gone all in on being too big to fail. He knows that if they bring him down the whole of cycling goes with him... But not all the way. Soon the others will fancy their chances of being main characters in an indiefilm, and won't go on being extras in a blockbuster.

 

[snipeheem]

The Pogster has now gone all in on being too big to fail. He knows that if they bring him down the whole of cycling goes with him... But not all the way. Soon the others will fancy their chances of being main characters in an indiefilm, and won't go on being extras in a blockbuster.

He will never be caught , if they do then cycling is dead

 

[E_F_]

He will never be caught , if they do then cycling is dead

That's what I'm saying. What if there's a pro cycling Posadist in the peloton..?

 

[Netserk]

What are you talking about ? Haha

Do you know what "hypocrisy" is? It's a specific term with a specific meaning.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

He will never be caught , if they do then cycling is dead

Don't we live in the cleanest era when it comes to positive dopig tests anyway in cycling? Why don't we all start to believe in miracles? So whatever is going on, the testing regime doesn't want to, or can't find any of it it seems.

 

[E_F_]

Of course money talks, and there's money in the circus at the moment.

 

[snipeheem]

Of course money talks, and there's money in the circus at the moment.

And the guy who is making them the most money is Pogacar with his team

 

[E_F_]

And the guy who is making them the most money is Pogacar with his team

Yeah. Well, I'm talking about all the other ones, but it seems like it.

 

[E_F_]

List their respective wins from age 14-18.

You're right about that lmao. Ayuso didn't do much before signing with UAE, and then promptly went on to do much.

 

[E_F_]

More times than not, things don’t go as you think they will

Real talent always rise to the top

Worthless argument. The most talented rider is the rider at the top; therefore the rider at the top is the most talented rider.

 

[Salvarani]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

When Stoke had to move on from the long free-throws of Delap and crosses to Crouch

Look where they are now

 

[Red Rick]

It is really interesting observing the behaviors of some folks just getting into a frenzy over the pogacar wins. Full on fanboyism (or whatever the more clinically accurate psychological trait that falls under) in the modern world is fascinating - the more wins, and the more absurd the performances, the more the drooling and admiration. To the point that some threads are challenging to read [[content deleted]]

It's so wild to me. Like you see Padun winning 2 Dauphine stages out of nowhere and everyone agrees that it's sus and everyone is in on the joke.

Yet now the single most outlandish doper is staring us right in the face and more than half the cycling fans think it's the greatest thing ever.

[[content deleted]]

 

[Salvarani]

Vinge is easily the most outrageous one

 

[Netserk]

It is really interesting observing the behaviors of some folks just getting into a frenzy over the pogacar wins. Full on fanboyism (or whatever the more clinically accurate psychological trait that falls under) in the modern world is fascinating - the more wins, and the more absurd the performances, the more the [[content deleted]] admiration.

It's the power of status. Popular actors as an example have similar simps. I could also easily give some GRAPES examples were it's clear that an action is hailed only because it's the action of that specific person.

 

[Salvarani]

It's so wild to me. Like you see Padun winning 2 Dauphine stages out of nowhere and everyone agrees that it's sus and everyone is in on the joke.

Yet now the single most outlandish doper is staring us right in the face and more than half the cycling fans think it's the greatest thing ever.

Excuse me what the ***

He is only lucky

 

[Cookster15]

What in the world does that have to do with the idea that Pogi didn't win much before joining UAE? Again, this was the original claim that you took exception to.

A non issue, why keep bringing that up? How old was Pogacar when he came under Gianetti? Do you expect riders to show their potential at 15? Quite clear at 20 there is huge natural progression. Someone else mentioned Ayuso. Likewise he is super young so will of course show significant improvement on his earlier results when he was just out of nappies..

You can't point to pre UAE results. You can suggest Gianetti has figured out how to identify great responders at a very young age.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

U wot mate?

 

[Ripper]

It is really interesting observing the behaviors of some folks just getting into a frenzy over the pogacar wins. Full on fanboyism in the modern world is fascinating (or whatever the more clinically accurate psychological trait or behavioral theory fanboyism falls under, be it related to social identity or other). The more wins, and the more absurd the performances, the more the rabid admiration. So in the case of pogacar, the more dominant, the more certain fans are vested and excited to the extreme, while some other observers become increasingly less interested.

I find this all the more interesting because I follow bike racing and it is obviously happening. However, this is a tendency across different forums and topics, so not purely a CN or bike racing phenomenon. It does lead to practical challenges when trying to catch up on topics and there are an extraordinary number of posts (not just talking the clinic here)! And of course the level of hyperbole and trolling also increases greatly