Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[E_F_]

Was screaming in Van Baarle's face for about 15 minutes.

Sounds like a nice chap/fellow

 

[E_F_]

Redbull Bora and Visma are not behind UAE.

Why do you think that? They quite literally are behind them in the standings! And they have smaller budgets!! How would you know such a thing?

 

[E_F_]

Usain Bolt, Armand Duplantis, Jonathan Edwards

Yeah... I think they all doped.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Humm ... tell us more. I'd have to check it out, but is that not the same as refusing to pee in a cup after a race?

There was an overhead shot right after the finish of WCRR last Sunday. It was discusses on these pages a week ago. The link was also posted by someone in response to a similar request. You can go back and find it. As to your question, yes, that appears to be quite similar. Look like the said commissaire was a relative newb not yet informed of the current "unwritten" rules of the game/circus.

 

[E_F_]

It needs to be said here: UAE may well have access to lighter, smaller, more powerful, more efficient motors/drivetrains/batteries, than anyone else. Also their money may simply allow them to get away with more than the rest. I see no reason to believe that motors couldn't be where the main difference between UAE and the rest lies. In fact, to me, it seems somewhat more likely than any other explanation. It also isn't like the rest of UAE are doing poorly.

 

[Casual cyclist]

It needs to be said here: UAE may well have access to lighter, smaller, more powerful, more efficient motors/drivetrains/batteries, than anyone else. Also their money may simply allow them to get away with more than the rest. I see no reason to believe that motors couldn't be where the main difference between UAE and the rest lies. In fact, to me, it seems somewhat more likely than any other explanation. It also isn't like the rest of UAE are doing poorly.

In fact, that's pretty much the only plausible explanation not relying on any minor miracles of all we have witnessed since 2020 and especially this year.

 

[Froome]

It needs to be said here: UAE may well have access to lighter, smaller, more powerful, more efficient motors/drivetrains/batteries, than anyone else. Also their money may simply allow them to get away with more than the rest. I see no reason to believe that motors couldn't be where the main difference between UAE and the rest lies. In fact, to me, it seems somewhat more likely than any other explanation. It also isn't like the rest of UAE are doing poorly.

Everybody is flying.

Look how Ulissi was flying in some races. Unbeliavable.

 

[noob]

With everything that happened this year, it's very easy to forget what Visma did in 2023. What they achieved with vingegard and kuss was absurd, they were so much stronger than the top GC riders in the world that they could let their domestique win a grand tour.

The time trial to combloux was at the time the most obviously rocket fueled performance I had ever seen. They took the p*ss out of Pogacar in that tour, and they took the p*ss out of us fans the whole year.

Gianetti, maxtin, Pogacar probably realized that they could go even further with their programe, even more ridiculous than Visma in 2023, and as long as Pogacar is attacking , people will eat it up and not question.

Visma with Roglic/Vingegard and UAE with Pogacar have been playing the same game against each other since the return to racing in 2020, with a nice little preview at the 2019 vuelta. It snowballs each year.


I hope soon that the elastic snaps.

Spoiler: Spoiler

Meanwhile Lappartient sits by the fireplace throwing dices to determine who to give immunity 2025

 

[Oldermanish]

The illuminati. The people who run the world.

The same folks creating selective hurricane weather in North Carolina? They sound scary.

 

[Oldermanish]

wasn't LA the youngest WCH ever at that time? might be a lucky results and kinda one of sprint win (can't remember) but WCH is usually not easy to win.

He rode away from Indurain and Co.. He was also bulked up like a linebacker; didn't look like a cyclist.

 

[carolina]

You can't compare bodybuilding to cycling, the bodybuilder wins on a certain horrific unquantifiable aesthetic, the cyclist on quantifiable time/speed. Anyway Arnold looked way better , because afterward it just became too exaggerated. Arnold was a Lysippus statue, Coleman a digitalized Hulk.

In terms of cycling, can we really say Armstrong was more naturally gifted than Ullrich or was he on the best program? Lance didn't pay Ferrari a million to work exclusively with himself for nothing. To me, Jan had superior physiology. This is what makes it impossible to know where Pog really stands in the mother nature department in my opinion.

Armstrong had the financial means to have the best, so he paid to have the best. He did everything he could to win. Being more naturally gifted can also mean that he responds better or suffers less side effects from certain PEDs.

My point is that, even within sports where doping is legal, outliers exist and dominate the sport. Of course the quality of the doping protocols make a difference, I just don't think UAE is that far away from Visma. For me, Poga is a clear outlier. This season has been absolutely ridiculous and drugs alone would not explain it.

Vingegaard's Tour performance was also outrageous, considering the accident and how he had to change his preparation, so I don't think UAE program is that far from what Visma is doing.

 

[hrotha]

It's so funny to me that some of you guys are engaging in such a passionate debate about whether Pogačar's massive advantage is due to a better program, better training methods, better genetics (talent goes brrr ), better genetics (better responder ), motors, or the willingness of the UCI to look the other way. Like we have data to meaningfully distinguish between these. Or, more importantly, like such an outrageous outlier of a performance could be adequately explained by just one of these factors

 

[Raest]

Why not?

If we look at bodybuilding, where they can use all the drugs they want, it's easy to find guys that were vastly superior to the rest. Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath... they weren't using anything different from everybody else and they were still much better for several years. Even to this day they're considered much better.

Whatever Pogacar/UAE are doing is not that different from Visma. Pogacar just responds better to whatever they are doing.

Not exactly. Aside from the fact that in bodybuilding the winner is whoever, Joe Weider (and now Jim MAnnion) want to be the winner, Coleman was indeed an outlier but Heath whilst symmetrical, lacked bone structure and the only reason he won as many Olympias as he did was the very shallow talent pool. Effectively his only rival was Kai Greene. Greene should have won at least once against Heath, maybe even twice but he never had a chance as we was a fomer stripper.

Another example: Mitchell Hooper, competes in strongman, another sport where they can dope all they want.

He turned pro in 2022 and is already considered one of the best strongman competitors of all time.

There is no one else. Brian Shaw retired (or is about to), Eddie Hall is a youtuber, and Halfthor is only now starting to get back to competition level, though he is too getting old.
On the other hand the talent pool in cycling is the deepest it's been for years.
Not good analogies.

 

[Stablo]

Why not?

If we look at bodybuilding, where they can use all the drugs they want, it's easy to find guys that were vastly superior to the rest. Ronnie Coleman, Phil Heath... they weren't using anything different from everybody else and they were still much better for several years. Even to this day they're considered much better.

Whatever Pogacar/UAE are doing is not that different from Visma. Pogacar just responds better to whatever they are doing.

Bodybuilding and endurance sport, what a comparison. How do you measure whos the best, there are tens(hundreds propably) of bodybuilders that look equally massive and pumped. Then its in the judges eyes whos the most "aesthetic" .So I dont think you can compare these two sports at all.

 

[Tim Cahill]

It's like if Ronnie Coleman rocked up and also started beating the worlds best in powerlifting competitions by miles as well.

 

[Divergence]

Was screaming in Van Baarle's face for about 15 minutes.

It should be added that it was for nothing. It is also understandable that it is hard to control the emotions at the end of a race. But, what I do not like is this we are all friends here mentality that Pog tries to portray. He is a killer as he should be. I just do not like when he is actin all the time. Granted, most of the time it is pretty easy for hime to be friendly with everybody all the time, especially this year.

You're comparing the mind to the body, and while in your case they might be equally complex, as a rule that is not the case.

It is not at all clear to me that the mind has a greater variance than the body in terms of "performance". It might be so but I am not sure about it. In any case it seems to me that it seems to be possible that there are people who are that much better than all the rest, be it a mind centric endeavor or a body centric endeavor (remember that training and racing hard has a non negligible psychological component).

 

[E_F_]

It is not at all clear to me that the mind has a greater variance than the body in terms of "performance".

We're not talking about "performance" in the case of Newton. We're talking about coming up with completely new ideas...

 

[Divergence]

We're not talking about "performance" in the case of Newton. We're talking about coming up with completely new ideas...

Which is the mind performing at an extremely high level.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Some guys are starting to like hating Pogacar. He is such a good kid but they are starting to sell the narrative he is a clown, a hypocrite, a new LA (oh lord, they don't know who was LA). Dylan Van Baarle's accountability after his awful sprint? You are so close to win one of your dream races (Pogacar loves Flanders), 6 hours on the saddle and Van Baarle goes to his right to close the door for Pogacar. He didn't need to do that. Funny how you (@Redrick) criticize Jasper the disaster for his horrendous sprints but here you don't speak about Van Baarle's mistake. Maybe is not Pogacar who is hypocrite

 

[carolina]

Not exactly. Aside from the fact that in bodybuilding the winner is whoever, Joe Weider (and now Jim MAnnion) want to be the winner, Coleman was indeed an outlier but Heath whilst symmetrical, lacked bone structure and the only reason he won as many Olympias as he did was the very shallow talent pool. Effectively his only rival was Kai Greene. Greene should have won at least once against Heath, maybe even twice but he never had a chance as we was a fomer stripper.

There is no one else. Brian Shaw retired (or is about to), Eddie Hall is a youtuber, and Halfthor is only now starting to get back to competition level, though he is too getting old.
On the other hand the talent pool in cycling is the deepest it's been for years.
Not good analogies.

Then why only Pogacar? Why have a single rider on your team win everything and make it super suspicious? UAE has other incredible riders, but none of them is even close to Poga.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Then why only Pogacar? Why have a single rider on your team win everything and make it super suspicious? UAE has other incredible riders, but none of them is even close to Poga.

I already said this but no one wants to gives a reasonable answer. It's better to bark and scream all the time... Hirschi was more talented as a junior but somehow Pogi was the chosen one to become the GOAT, forgetting about Hirschi. Some folks live in an alternative world

 

[Salvarani]

Then why only Pogacar? Why have a single rider on your team win everything and make it super suspicious? UAE has other incredible riders, but none of them is even close to Poga.

It is funnier to look at team Evenepoel in that regard. Soudal has one of their worst seasons in a long time as a team, collective wise.

UAE been performing as a collective.

 

[E_F_]

Van Baarle goes to his right to close the door for Pogacar.

That doesn't sound like what @Red Rick mentioned..?

 

[Froome]

Some guys are starting to like hating Pogacar. He is such a good kid but they are starting to sell the narrative he is a clown, a hypocrite, a new LA (oh lord, they don't know who was LA). Dylan Van Baarle's accountability after his awful sprint? You are so close to win one of your dream races (Pogacar loves Flanders), 6 hours on the saddle and Van Baarle goes to his right to close the door for Pogacar. He didn't need to do that. Funny how you (@Redrick) criticize Jasper the disaster for his horrendous sprints but here you don't speak about Van Baarle's mistake. Maybe is not Pogacar who is hypocrite

🎥 Controversy erupts as Evenepoel and Pogacar take jab at Roglic: "You shouldn't be afraid of him"

Tadej Pogacar and Remco Evenepoel have shown they get along well during this Tour de France. The Slovenian leader of UAE-Team Emirates and the Belgian youngster of Soudal-Quick Step met behind the pod...

www.idlprocycling.com

Of course he is. How do you explain this?

That's why even in his own country, they love more Roglic, because he is not a sneaky.

 

[Raest]

Which is the mind performing at an extremely high level.

That's even worse an analogy than the bodybuilding one. In the 18th and 19th century very few people were educated, there were very few universities, access to said universities was hard and expensive for the vast majority of the population, and in the case of german universities professors were paid by their students, not by the univsersity. Riemann lived and died in extreme poverty because he was not a popular lecturer.