Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Forever The Best]

Only 'defense' is probably that he wasn't that great in the Giro and that in these specific races Roglic is taken out by the attrition and weather and Evenepoel is taken out by being fat again.

Pogacar likely used Giro as training looking at W/Kg at Giro and Tour, despite breaking the Monte Grappa record.
New era of cycling, just dominating Giro as a warm-up, none of that tiredness or getting into shape.

 

[Divergence]

Pogacar likely used Giro as training looking at W/Kg at Giro and Tour, despite breaking the Monte Grappa record.
New era of cycling, just dominating Giro as a warm-up, none of that tiredness or getting into shape.

One has to be much better than all of the others in order to use a race like the Giro for preparation and to win it by a ridiculous margin. The question is how is he so much better.

 

[Peyroteo94]

One has to be much better and all of the others in order to use a race like the Giro for preparation and to win it by a ridiculous margin. The question is how is he so much better.

Compared to 99% of the peloton, I will say 1 w/kg in FTP

 

[noob]

Lappartient giving favours "randomly" seems to be one of the possible explanations.

Last year it was Visma. This year it's UAE. Whoever helps his candidacy for IOC laughs the loudest.

 

[Divergence]

Compared to 99% of the peloton, I will say 1 w/kg in FTP

Sure, but I am wondering how, not by how much . It is clear that he is so much better that he can do whatever he wants and still win.

 

[ashhutch1997]

If Pog dominates like this next year, I can see the interest and viewing figures going down. That's what I think will be the breaking point.

 

[Salvarani]

Only 'defense' is probably that he wasn't that great in the Giro and that in these specific races Roglic is taken out by the attrition and weather and Evenepoel is taken out by being fat again.

But its just luck? I thought so.

 

[Salvarani]

If Pog dominates like this next year, I can see the interest and viewing figures going down. That's what I think will be the breaking point.

It will be going up, I reckon.

Cycling is bigger than ever.

Next year WC in Rwanda as well.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sure, but I am wondering how, not by how much . It is clear that he is so much better that he can do whatever he wants and still win.

I really don't know. I know it can't be just because of doping. Redbull Bora and Visma are not behind UAE.
And this year, his new coach made a huge difference. Other thing important to say is: How was Pogacar the best rider in the world and wasn't even doing a lot of things (in training and nutrition) methodically?

 

[ashhutch1997]

It will be going up, I reckon.

Cycling is bigger than ever.

Next year WC in Rwanda as well.

Not so sure about that, in the UK for example the popularity of the sport has been declining for a few years now. Especially in the ametur racing, numbers are worryingly low especially in the youth races, compared to 10 years ago. I know the cost of living has a lot to do with it of course.
Judging by social media comments, people are already getting fed up with his dominance and predictability.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Mark Hughes' Stoke 2015, of which Bojan was apart of, was the zenith of football, peak brexitball none of this woke sh*t passing it around the back we see nowadays. Before bald frauds and trendy Dutch managers managed to ruin footy for everyone.

That is just a team made up of top club rejects. Give me Pulis' hard men any day of the week.
In fact give me back the UAE team of old, too, with its three big GC stars Aru, Martin and Mirza.

 

[Extinction]

This. I came to this thread just pointing there is something about Pogacar's physiological ability (unless he is using a motor) truly remarkable and other guys just scream with rage "Doper, biggest cheater ever, he makes LA a good boy, etc". This adds nothing to the thread, just generates conflicts. The Clinic used to have guys with very interesting content (Hitch for example). Now, there is some competition to see who screams louder "Doper, Fraud, etc".
Of course Pogacar is doping, I said many times there is no clean athlete in High performance sports, specially individual sports where physical capacity is essential. But what explains this difference between Pogacar and the rest? This should be the conversation and if you think a little bit, this difference in performance can't be explained only by a better program because histoy already showed us LA (for example) wasn't so MUCH better than his rivals like Pogacar is.

Now let's take a look at his 21 & 22 seasons. He could be dropped, albiet temporarily, on the Ventoux and have sub-par showings in the Worlds ITT and RR. In 22 he could have the fight taken to him throughout the Tour and blow on the Glandon. Last year there was the obvious setback, but he really got crushed on two occassions in the Tour. By contrast, this year he upped his game to a degree that begs to ask the 64,000 dollar question. What has changed in his preparation? Laughably, he said it was down to the nutrition (poridge for breakfast) and more training above zone 2, as if in 2019-2023 his nutrition and training were all wrong, to be rethought to improve this much. Considering doping as a given, what changed there, because clearly the program he was previously on did not provide this current level, a level he has maintained from March to October. Again he had drops of form in the past, so presumably UAE modified his program to eliminate them, to create a Frankenstein on two wheels. They must have found the magic potion, because it can't be explained away by talent. He doubtless is very talented, but until this year he showed vulnerability, whereas this year he did not. Now given talent is a constant, one can only conclude that the doping improved (or a motor, as has been suggested). True, he was leaner this year, which may account for greater efficiency, but it should also take its tole on resistence in terms of remaining in top shape over the entire season. It used to be that a rider, in the age of modern performance science, could only reach a really low weight and maintain incredible form for a single period, whereas Pog has done it for an entire season. It defies everything we know thus far. With UAE funding and the Gianetti-Maxtin masterminding, I think they have just gotten ahead.

 

[Salvarani]

Not so sure about that, in the UK for example the popularity of the sport has been declining for a few years now. Especially in the ametur racing, numbers are worryingly low especially in the youth races, compared to 10 years ago. I know the cost of living has a lot to do with it of course.
Judging by social media comments, people are already getting fed up with his dominance and predictability.

The world is bigger than the UK, and of course the interest there may have gone after reaching its peak with Olympics and benefits after that with the whole Sky era. Then now with the decline of Ineos and people within it doing different things now. Riders like Froome, Thomas and Cavendish all getting older. They need more investment and they will be on an upwards tradjectory again. It is a cycle.

That may be what you see on your feed but that doesnt mean it is telling the whole story. Our feeds tend to align with what we think or like, so we only see more of it it. Dangerous world.

 

[ashhutch1997]

The world is bigger than the UK, and of course the interest there may have gone after reaching its peak with Olympics and benefits after that with the whole Sky era. Then now with the decline of Ineos and people within it doing different things now. Riders like Froome, Thomas and Cavendish all getting older. They need more investment and they will be on an upwards tradjectory again. It is a cycle.

That may be what you see on your feed but that doesnt mean it is telling the whole story. Our feeds tend to align with what we think or like, so we only see more of it it. Dangerous world.

I understand what your saying, but I disagree respectably.
The world is bigger than the UK, but it generates a lot more money and support if countries like the UK or USA are more invested in cycling. The Armstrong years brought in so much popularity and money into the sport that was never seen.
Also regarding the world championships being in Rwanda, the world's have been in left field countries before, like Colombia 1995.

 

[Salvarani]

That is just a team made up of top club rejects. Give me Pulis' hard men any day of the week.
In fact give me back the UAE team of old, too, with its three big GC stars Aru, Martin and Mirza.

Brought them to the FA-Cup final!

 

[Salvarani]

I understand what your saying, but I disagree respectably.
The world is bigger than the UK, but it generates a lot more money and support if countries like the UK or USA are more invested in cycling. The Armstrong years brought in so much popularity and money into the sport that was never seen.
Also regarding the world championships being in Rwanda, the world's have been in left field countries before, like Colombia 1995.

That the sport or the commercial interest in it, would be on the decline is not just true though. It is quite the opposite.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[Froome]

Yes, we're now comparing 2024 professional athletes to scientists from centuries ago.

Truly the HAHAHAHA era

Yeah, "the AHAHAHAH era" is the perfect expression.

 

[Red Rick]

Now let's take a look at his 21 & 22 seasons. He could be dropped, albiet temporarily, on the Ventoux and have sub-par showings in the Worlds ITT and RR. In 22 he could have the fight taken to him throughout the Tour and blow on the Glandon. Last year there was the obvious setback, but he really got crushed on two occassions in the Tour. By contrast, this year he upped his game to a degree that begs to ask the 64,000 dollar question. What has changed in his preparation? Laughably, he said it was down to the nutrition (poridge for breakfast) and more training above zone 2, as if in 2019-2023 his nutrition and training were all wrong, to be rethought to improve this much. Considering doping as a given, what changed there, because clearly the program he was previously on did not provide this current level, a level he has maintained from March to October. Again he had drops of form in the past, so presumably UAE modified his program to eliminate them, to create a Frankenstein on two wheels. They must have found the magic potion, because it can't be explained away by talent. He doubtless is very talented, but until this year he showed vulnerability, whereas this year he did not. Now given talent is a constant, one can only conclude that the doping improved (or a motor, as has been suggested). True, he was leaner this year, which may account for greater efficiency, but it should also take its tole on resistence in terms of remaining in top shape over the entire season. It used to be that a rider, in the age of modern performance science, could only reach a really low weight and maintain incredible form for a single period, whereas Pog has done it for an entire season. It defies everything we know thus far. With UAE funding and the Gianetti-Maxtin masterminding, I think they have just gotten ahead.

There's multiple things, but I think the increase in performance at the Tour climbs especially just looks like simply dosing higher.

 

[Extinction]

There's multiple things, but I think the increase in performance at the Tour climbs especially just looks like simply dosing higher.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Tim Cahill]

That is just a team made up of top club rejects. Give me Pulis' hard men any day of the week.
In fact give me back the UAE team of old, too, with its three big GC stars Aru, Martin and Mirza.

In many ways Ulissi is like the Ryan Shawcross of cycling, a gatekeeper spanning multiple iterations

UAE are really just Stoke if they were bought by rich Arabs like City were.

 

[Red Rick]

Care to elaborate?

I mean they're always gonna be tweaking things. And I do actually believe they also improve some non doping things, like better time trial preparation, no LBL crash, nutrition in relation to not bonking like Loze again.

But to make a quantum leap improvement you really gotta take something you already know that works and just ramp it up to the maximum.

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1842837622768505333

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1842837622768505333


Jorgenson knows what is happening.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In many ways Ulissi is like the Ryan Shawcross of cycling, a gatekeeper spanning multiple iterations

UAE are really just Stoke if they were bought by rich Arabs like City were.

Indeed. Contrary to the situation at Stoke, City was of course a better team in its short lived Hughes era.

 

[Salvarani]

Indeed. Contrary to the situation at Stoke, City was of course a better team in its short lived Hughes era.

City had the owners from Thailand before the Arabs as well, who spent a lot on the team.

Svennis even managed them.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

City had the owners from Thailand before the Arabs as well, who spent a lot on the team.

Svennis even managed them.

I know, but at that point it didn't feel as ridiculous as what was happening at Chelsea and other clubs.