Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[perico]

In Pogacar's favour is that he's shown what he can do at a very young age - not suddenly becoming a mountain goat later on like Lance, Froome, Wiggins, Thomas, etc. So it might just be talent

It’s not his climbing that has anyone questioning it. It’s the fact that he’s beating Tom Dom (a guy who has multiple 3rd week TT victories to his name) and others by 1:30 in an event that’s never been his strength. I could accept a performance like Contador’s breakout TTs in 2007. This was more in line with Contador smoking Spartacus in 2009, except it would be 2006 Contador instead of peak Contador.

 

[perico]

Let the stupid scientific explanations begin.

Next coming: His heart is of the size of a watermelon!

I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles

 

[terribleone]

I think it was as simple as pump him full of the good stuff, light the blue touch paper and let him fly. The numbers would have probably blown up a Stages head unit... Also there was of course the possibility that he'd have scorched up the climb like Marty McFly's Delorean and gone back to 21st October 2015. '21102015' represents not only the date but also his average wattage for the climb.

what is the opinion on the fact TP didnt have a power meter after bike change? could this performance especially on the climb be attributed to the fact he didnt know how fast he was going so he couldnt keep it at least somewhat believable? or do they have just permission to do whatever because of covid no governing body can afford a scandal

I was hoping someone would ask. It's in his blood. His blood has a superior recovery capacity...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWMdqOkK1Q

I wonder how Jeroen Swart will try to defend Pogacar's performance.

 

[BlueRoads]

I’m sorry you don’t believe in miracles

I'm sorry you don't believe in watermelons.

Okay, I'm in a really silly mood.
Anyway, in the German press there are some articles who put up questions, talking about Gianetti, Hauptman and the Slovenians in the current Aderlass trial. It's toned down, though, leaving room for your own fantasies and not very informative.

 

[klintE]

And

I was hoping someone would ask. It's in his blood. His blood has a superior recovery capacity...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dWMdqOkK1Q

So he doesn't need to do (auto)transfusions. He gets it naturally (?)

 

[pastronef]

You forgot all about him since he started working for UAE and no longer defends Froome at every occasion?

I was being facetious. defends? he tested him five years ago. he also said the TUEs are not good and Sky didnt come out of the leaked TUEs very well.
I am amzed at the way he's targeted since that day he tested the Dawg in 2015

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Merckx got busted like 3 times

Of which twice was an obvious frame job by the same doctor who was a friend and supporter of Gimondi. But yes, he got busted. In that time, i think all the big names got popped more than once. Gimondi got popped once +/- two months before a Giro he would then win That was just how it was. You got 2 month suspensions or something back then. Haha.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308037778622550016

View: https://twitter.com/friebos/status/1308037778622550016

He could solve the world's energy crisis.

Actually, Pogacar seems like the definition of the word introvert to me. Although I did wonder if there is a cultural aspect to it as his behaviour appears to be an exact copy of Roglic's.

What? Pog seems a lot more peppy.

 

[Ripper]

Of which twice was an obvious frame job by the same doctor who was a friend and supporter of Gimondi. But yes, he got busted. In that time, i think all the big names got popped more than once. Gimondi got popped once +/- two months before a Giro he would then win That was just how it was. You got 2 month suspensions or something back then. Haha.

He could solve the world's energy crisis.

What? Pog seems a lot more peppy.

Ha ha! The head coach cold be exactly describing the effects of the dopage! "On another level" ... no friggin' doubt!

 

[Ripper]

Ah yes, dr San Millan.
I know that it was difficult to escape doping in the nineties and early '00, but this is a very 'dirty' resumé.

"His cycling experience includes work with 6 professional cycling teams, 1 Tour de France winner and 16 Grand Tour (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia, and Vuelta a España) podium finishers, including teams such as Vitalicio Seguros, ONCE, Saunier Duval, and Astana. He has worked with riders such as Joseba Beloki, Abraham Olano, Chris Horner, Fred Rodriguez, Jorge Jackshe, Leonardo Piepoli, David Millar, and Alexander Vinokourov. "

Priceless! ONCE, Saunier Duval ... nothing to see here but clean teams.

Allan Lim defending the Floyd anyone?

 

[Ripper]

Has there ever been a cyclist "completely on another level" who was not doped? Honest question. I can't remember one.

Mostly that's a no

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Turns out he had bilharzia

I've heard his midichlorian count is off the charts.

 

[Cycle Chic]

what about the MITOCHONDRIAL DISEASE ? already laying the ground for suspicious blood values from him ....aka Froomes asthma

 

[Koxx]

As a newcomer to this forum I don't want to be smart, as many of you make a qualitatively and objective posts.
But I would still like to point out some lay observations that arise to me.

First of all. What was the purpose and why did Jani Brajkovic on sep 19 at 17:06 Tweeted “There shall be a surprise”.
Did he already know something, and had an »ace up on sleeve«? It turns out like that he couldn't resist to the emotional temptation, and he shouldn't tweet.

Why did Pogacar ride without power meter or any computer, since he is well known to (self-likeable) publishing on Strava.
Why they hide data? Was his heart rate outperforming and for science fiction?

And regarding to his radio problems, this may indicate to that UAE could not control it (him), as they maybe wanted him to slow down a bit, as he was flying too much off
as they didn’t want him to make such a supernatural performance and that big time gap to Tom D. and Wout V.A., which raises now a lot of suspicions and speculation all over the world.

btw; Among the general population in Slovenia, there is more questions then answers and a lot of mixed emotions with celebration of bitter victory.
People are somehow worried, that this victory would not be over time overturned to a major scandal.
As there are many discussions across the board on the odd super-recovery and ride of TP on TT.

 

[samhocking]

As a newcomer to this forum I don't want to be smart, as many of you make a qualitatively and objective posts.
But I would still like to point out some lay observations that arise to me.

First of all. What was the purpose and way did Jani Brajkovic on sep 19 at 17:06 Tweeted “There shall be a surprise”.
Did he already know something, and had an »ace up on sleeve«? It turns out like that he couldn't resist to the emotional temptation, and he shouldn't tweet.

Why did Pogacar ride without power meter or any computer, since he is well known to (self-likeable) publishing on Strava.
Why they hide data? Was his heart rate outperforming and for science fiction?

And regarding his radio problems, this may indicate to that UAE could not control it, as they maybe wanted him to slow down a bit, as he was flying too much off
as they didn’t want him to make such a supernatural performance and that big time gap to Tom D. and Wout V.A.

btw; Among the general population in Slovenia, there is more questions there answers and a lot of mixed emotions with celebration of bitter victory.
People are somehow worried, that this victory would not be over time overturned to a major scandal.
As there are many discussions across the board on the odd super-recovery and ride of TP on TT.

That Colnago isn't particularly light at around 7.3kg. I'd imagine they stripped everything non-essential off the road bike to get close to 6.8kg without having to resort to lighter and less-proven components.

 

[perico]

Jeremy Whittle has a few questions

Some, to borrow the phrase used by one sceptic, are, for now, keeping their hands by their sides. The main reason for that is the continuing presence of those with their own dark histories working within the engine rooms of leading teams, including Pogacar’s UAE Team Emirates.


The UAE Team Emirates operation is run by Mauro Gianetti, team principal and CEO. The Swiss former professional, who spent three days in a coma in 1998 after being taken to hospital during the Tour de Romandie, has been at the heart of a series of notorious incidents over the past 25 years.
The most infamous would be the Saunier Duval scandal of 2008, when the Gianetti-managed team quit the Tour after their star rider Riccardo Riccò tested positive for a new generation EPO. Riccò was also fired, along with his teammate Leonardo Piepoli, and the sponsorship ended soon afterwards.
But neither the UCI nor ASO, the promoter of the Tour, could say they hadn’t been warned, given that the British professional David Millar, making his own comeback from a two-year doping ban, had written to both organisations expressing misgivings about Gianetti’s management, while riding for the team.
Gianetti and the Saunier Duval team manager, Matxin Fernández, later moved on to the Geox-TMC team, which included a rider called Juan José Cobo. The Spaniard had also raced for Gianetti at Saunier Duval. In 2011, to general surprise, Cobo burst through the ranks to win the Vuelta a España at the expense of Chris Froome.
It took nearly a decade for Cobo to be finally stripped of that victory, to the benefit of Froome. The four-times Tour de France winner was recovering in July 2019 from his serious crash when he heard the news that Cobo had been found guilty of “a violation of the anti-doping rules [use of a banned substance] based on irregularities found in his Athlete Biological Passport in 2009 and 2011”.
On Monday, the scepticism towards Pogacar’s success was noted, but not dwelt on, in the pages of L’Équipe, the French sports newspaper owned by ASO. Gianetti’s management career, it said, had “often been tainted by doping scandals”, while Fernández was described as “dragging several ‘casseroles’ of doping cases”.

 

[perico]

Has there ever been a cyclist "completely on another level" who was not doped? Honest question. I can't remember one.

LeMond in 1986. After the gunshot wound he was still great but not physically superior to his top rivals, but in 1986 he was.

 

[ppanther92]

As a newcomer to this forum I don't want to be smart, as many of you make a qualitatively and objective posts.
But I would still like to point out some lay observations that arise to me.

First of all. What was the purpose and way did Jani Brajkovic on sep 19 at 17:06 Tweeted “There shall be a surprise”.
Did he already know something, and had an »ace up on sleeve«? It turns out like that he couldn't resist to the emotional temptation, and he shouldn't tweet.

Why did Pogacar ride without power meter or any computer, since he is well known to (self-likeable) publishing on Strava.
Why they hide data? Was his heart rate outperforming and for science fiction?

And regarding to his radio problems, this may indicate to that UAE could not control it (him), as they maybe wanted him to slow down a bit, as he was flying too much off
as they didn’t want him to make such a supernatural performance and that big time gap to Tom D. and Wout V.A., which raises now a lot of suspicions and speculation all over the world.

btw; Among the general population in Slovenia, there is more questions there answers and a lot of mixed emotions with celebration of bitter victory.
People are somehow worried, that this victory would not be over time overturned to a major scandal.
As there are many discussions across the board on the odd super-recovery and ride of TP on TT.

Interesting that Brajkovic tweet. But what should je have known exactly?

 

[BlueRoads]

Jeremy Whittle has a few questions

Although that is not a bad article and it's good that some big newspapers do ask some questions, there is something underneath this which I don't like. It sounds like doping returns now that the Skyneos time seems over, "the omerta is creeping back"... like it has ever been gone... Froome benefitting too late from the doping-relevation, no mention of his own case...
Puh. I don't know. I just don't really like articles as these. Similar ones are found in Germany, of course with the underlying suggestion that Germans don't dope nowadays...

 

[Climbing]

Not much to say, just that watching the incredulous faces of the JV alien dopers getting outdoped was priceless.

 

[laarsland]

Although I’m sympathetic to the issues around mental health and weight loss issues for athletes he’d spoken out on - Brajkovic comes off as a clown on SoMe. Posting a lot of semi-cryptic stuff like the post it’a referred to, or complaining about something in an acerbic way.

 

[triglavsky]

SoMe meaning?

 

[Cookster15]

It’s not his climbing that has anyone questioning it. It’s the fact that he’s beating Tom Dom (a guy who has multiple 3rd week TT victories to his name) and others by 1:30 in an event that’s never been his strength. I could accept a performance like Contador’s breakout TTs in 2007. This was more in line with Contador smoking Spartacus in 2009, except it would be 2006 Contador instead of peak Contador.

I get all that.

But.....

1. Tom Dom had been riding sacrifice for Roglic for three weeks and also rode his TT bike the entire course including the 8.5% 6k climb to the finish.
2. TP, at just 20 years of age was already showing promise at TT last season (and climbing), examples ToC and Vuelta.

I've read enough informed comment since the weekend to know what TP did was abnormal, but the above logic and reason (or lack thereof) is where you guys let yourselves down. TD is not a good reference point for the reasons I gave.

 

[Escarabajo]

If Tom Dumoulin is not good reference then who is? Roglic himself? Wout? Aru 2017? Froome 2012? take a pick.

 

[Koxx]

Interesting that Brajkovic tweet. But what should je have known exactly?

That is a mystery. Many are ask the same question.
In the psychological prospect, when you know something that you can not publicly reveal, but the temptation of vanity is somehow to strong and you disclose yourself.

 

[Panda Claws]

I get all that.

But.....

1. Tom Dom had been riding sacrifice for Roglic for three weeks and also rode his TT bike the entire course including the 8.5% 6k climb to the finish.
2. TP, at just 20 years of age was already showing promise at TT last season (and climbing), examples ToC and Vuelta.

I've read enough informed comment since the weekend to know what TP did was abnormal, but the above logic and reason (or lack thereof) is where you guys let yourselves down. TD is not a good reference point for the reasons I gave.

You talk about logic and TD not being a good reference point because of above reasons. Yet reason 2 has nothing to do with Tom Dumoulin or any other rider. It does nothing to make the case that a certain rider would not be a good reference point.

As to number 1. Even if we accept this, Tom Dumoulin can still be a good reference point for the flat section of the TT. And Pogacar was very strong on that section too.