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Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Rackham

Rackham

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topt said:
all I can say to cynics around here is, better get used to it, he is only 22 and will only get better
Click to expand...

I've been watching cycling for nearly 30 years so I'm totally used to this sort of stuff by now & the names of multiple Tour winning Terminators are interchangeable. So I don't see what your point is.

GuntherL1 said:
Alaphillipe, a good TT rider, lost 1m11s on Pogacar.
MvdP probably rode his first ITT at 100%. At the finish, he looked like someone had hung him upside down in a sauna for two hours.
MvdP always had the talent. Even back in 2012, he finished top in a short time trial 25 seconds ahead of... Remi Cavagna.

Compare that to Pogacars pre-Gianetti era ITT results.
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Again, I've been here, done that. I'm not going to have an examination of facial expressions convince me xyz is clean whilst xyz is a doper. Virenque once looked like he was dying on his bike & guess what? He was juiced up to his eyeballs. It's just the expressionless guys are quite funny & jarring by comparison, but it's in no shape or form conclusive evidence of clean versus dirty. Because from my chair here they're all juicing it to varying levels, ranging from mild irradiation to Chernobyl.

van der Poel went full-Chernobyl yesterday. So did Pogacar... until he took his foot of the gas at the end for tactical reasons (he didn't want the yellow so early & probably didn't want to eliminate McNulty who had crashed & finished the TT last).
 
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Unterlenkerfahrend

Unterlenkerfahrend

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Don't think he's doing some secret magic potion that no one has access to. Don't see him as more unreasonable than Roglic or 60kg Vingegaard who just finished 7 seconds behind Küng.
The fact that the lines between climbers and TT specialists have been blurred is a bad sign for the state of the Peleton overall but he's hardly the only one and it's not out of the blue. He has been a good ITTler in the past and just this year was very close on flat ITTs to Ganna in UAE and Tirreno and this profil here suited him more than these flat ones.
I think he's just a crazy talent with a solid medical approach behind him like Contador or Ullrich.
Doesn't mean that people like Giannetti shouldn't be hounded out of the sport, it's an absolute joke how so many shady clowns like him or Lefevre are given a free reign to do whatever they want.
 
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Riek s

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calm down everyone, he was so fast because he did a recon of the TT. Something that no other competitor did or has done in the last 100 years. (kind of the new marginal gains i guess)

Like someone said, the fact that climbers can TT is just as fishy as when >70kg guys started climbing like pocket climbers.
maybe less fishy than a 'praying mantis' being able to climb and TT like the best... but still...
 
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Mr. 64%

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The Chicken said two years ago, that his doping regime would be possible for him to pull off, even under the bio-passport era. According to him, he'd probably get flagged for targeted testing due to the watts he was pushing, not because of a bio-passport flag. This is not a thread about The Chicken, or indeed the era he rode in.

But...

For me, it could explain what we're seeing nowadays; tried and tested methods, but with much smaller doses being administered, making it harder to detect both in testing and on the bio-passport. To my knowledge, there's no way of detecting autologous blood transfusions if there's no traces of plastic to detect in the blood? Please do enlighten me if i'm way behind the bandwagon here :)
 
Ripper

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Mr. 64% said:
The Chicken said two years ago, that his doping regime would be possible for him to pull off, even under the bio-passport era. According to him, he'd probably get flagged for targeted testing due to the watts he was pushing, not because of a bio-passport flag. This is not a thread about The Chicken, or indeed the era he rode in.

But...

For me, it could explain what we're seeing nowadays; tried and tested methods, but with much smaller doses being administered, making it harder to detect both in testing and on the bio-passport. To my knowledge, there's no way of detecting autologous blood transfusions if there's no traces of plastic to detect in the blood? Please do enlighten me if i'm way behind the bandwagon here :)
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No, I think you're actually completely on the right track. It's not likely he's on some secret drug that no one else has., Possible, but certainly not the more likely explanation. More likely, is its combination of the right talent (no one is saying he's a complete donkey I hope), and the right approach to, how shall we say, supplementation. That latter aspect is a combination of science, experience, and clinical know-how ... this is where in the right medical team makes all the difference. And of course that requires lots of money and good connections.
 
Ripper

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carolina said:
According tothe portuguese eurosport commentators (which include José Azevedo, btw) it's all a result of wind tunel testing. Those who question Pogacar ITT results are just frustated people.

Nothing to see here boys, move along!

:rolleyes:
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There is always a way of rationalizing it isn't there? This year it is wind tunnel testing. They were not able to use that BS last year, but last year he didn't use a power meter and just recovered really well. MvdP was not able to use the wind tunnel excuse this year, but he did somehow find a position that found him watts, and used more aero wheels ... Even though he's been spending most of his spare time on this mountain bike.
 
Mr. 64%

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Ripper said:
Priceless isn't it! I guess that explains why in last year's Tour he had such a terrible TT ... oh wait!
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I think they actually said that they reverted to his 2020 TT position, having adjusted the position but not finding the speed for the National ITT.

To quote Brian Smith on Eurosport earlier today: It was a performance out of this world.
 
Ripper

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Mr. 64% said:
I think they actually said that they reverted to his 2020 TT position, having adjusted the position but not finding the speed for the National ITT.

To quote Brian Smith on Eurosport earlier today: It was a performance out of this world.
Click to expand...
It certainly was otherworldly. Considering his climbing in TA was also pretty phenomenal, I am truly curious what the mountain top finishes will be like this year.
 
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Mr. 64%

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Ripper said:
It certainly was otherworldly. Considering his climbing in TA was also pretty phenomenal, I am truly curious what the mountain top finishes will be like this year.
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The competition better bring their Castle Bravo game to the MTF's this year! If not, they'll be in for a beating. Unless Pog goes full Miguelon - which i don't see as very likely.
 
Froome

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What new kind of products the peloton are using? I heard something about ketones, but it appears that is a legal thing.
Talking about pogi performance yesterday, i think it was a human performance, i'm more suspicious about his itt on la planche des belles filles.
 
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18-Valve. (pithy)

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SafeBet said:
Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. His TT performances in prep races were better than last year and it's pretty clear he knows how to peak for the biggest goals. I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.
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Would have probably been very close between pre-crash Evenepoel and Pogacar, going by Evenepoel and Küng's TTs in Algarve

Volta ao Algarve em Bicicleta 2020 Stage 5 (ITT) results

Remco Evenepoel is the winner of Volta ao Algarve em Bicicleta 2020, before Maximilian Schachmann and Miguel Ángel López. Remco Evenepoel is the winner of the final stage.
www.procyclingstats.com www.procyclingstats.com

It's not much, but there's not much else to go on. My guess is that Pogacar put in a monster ride on par with his PdBF ITT.
 
Mr. 64%

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Froome said:
What new kind of products the peloton are using? I heard something about ketones, but it appears that is a legal thing.
Talking about pogi performance yesterday, i think it was a human performance, i'm more suspicious about his itt on la planche des belles filles.
Click to expand...
Nothing groundbreaking for all i know, although secrets could be well kept.
 
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Mr. 64% said:
For me, it could explain what we're seeing nowadays; tried and tested methods, but with much smaller doses being administered, making it harder to detect both in testing and on the bio-passport.
Click to expand...

I lean towards this explanation as well. Micro-dosing, transfusions, and peptides. I think the latest trend of "altitude training" is simply to create an explanation for the rise in blood values in the bio-passport. Also, contrasting Pogs lackluster national TT with his exceptional TT yesterday seems consistent with a transfusion to me. Might have been off form during the national TT because he was banking BBs.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

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topt said:
My point is I am looking forward seeing you guys here for the next 10-15 years, its a longshot but perhaps we can make this thread even longer than "Remco the wunderkind" one:D
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Quite hilarious, that of all the things to be frustated about, you are frustrated that Pogacar's thread isn't as long as Evenepoel's. You'll be happy to know, that by now Pogacar's clinic thread at least is much longer than Evenepoel's clinic thread.

SafeBet said:
Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. His TT performances in prep races were better than last year and it's pretty clear he knows how to peak for the biggest goals. I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.
Click to expand...
Van Aert was very disappointed by his own performance. Obviously there was his surgery, but he also said he didn't feel the power in his legs. He already knew during warm-up.
I think top/peak Van Aert should have been able to do better than Küng here, so he would probably have been able to beat Pogacar as well.

Red Rick said:
Not Ganna.

Remco I don't know why he's the benchmark here.
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Probably this:
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/world-championship-itt/2019/result
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/volta-ao-algarve/2020/stage-5
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/vuelta-ciclista-a-la-provincia-de-san-juan/2020/stage-3
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/uec-road-european-championships-itt/2019/result
 
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