Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[zlev11]

He has done it again.

seeing this guy hug Pogacar after he wins and try to be part of the glory is the most sickening thing about all of this.

 

[Nick2413]

Do any Pog fans actually think he's clean? I'm referring to the main forums here and the rest of the internet. Because I don't mind if someone just enjoys the show and has a laugh about the absurdity of the performances. fair enough, c'est un 'entertainment', after all. But if there's actually people out there who think this guy is riding around cleanz because he cares for his health or something and only other riders dope... oh boy.

My mom is largely in the bucket of people that thinks he’s doping but largely has fun watching him, and I would consider her a pretty “normal” casual fan. But she has also started to go down a similar trajectory of getting sick of it ever since the Tour this year. So hopefully that’s a good sign.

 

[Ripper]

He has done it again.

The vampire!

 

[GuntherL1]

Do any Pog fans actually think he's clean? I'm referring to the main forums here and the rest of the internet. Because I don't mind if someone just enjoys the show and has a laugh about the absurdity of the performances. fair enough, c'est un 'entertainment', after all. But if there's actually people out there who think this guy is riding around cleanz because he cares for his health or something and only other riders dope... oh boy.

Plenty especially in the media.

 

[Casual cyclist]

I don't believe in motor doping.
Nobody doing motor doping would be so stupid and pull off things like this.

[[content deleted]] people thinking just like this may well be what they are counting upon.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

Yes, it's also true for almost any cyclist at his peak vs his 19 yo version though.

 

[Cookster15]

Do any Pog fans actually think he's clean? I'm referring to the main forums here and the rest of the internet. Because I don't mind if someone just enjoys the show and has a laugh about the absurdity of the performances. fair enough, c'est un 'entertainment', after all. But if there's actually people out there who think this guy is riding around cleanz because he cares for his health or something and only other riders dope... oh boy.

Well, not me. And I think we can discount anyone in the media, they are never going to openly accuse him of doping, or worse motor doping.

 

[Nick2413]

Yes, it's also true for almost any cyclist at his peak vs his 19 yo version though.

It’s not a primary argument for me but you can’t deny the transformation was rapid from 2018 to all the sudden winning 3 GT stages and being a top name in the peloton the year he moved to UAE. And if he’s that good at 20 then why not 19?

 

[Cookster15]

Yes, it's also true for almost any cyclist at his peak vs his 19 yo version though.

Exactly. The line is blurred at that young age. Froome was 26 when he "appeared". Vingo 24. Pog only 19-20 years old. You can't predict Tour de France winners at below 18. You can predict they will be good, but not how good. There is no science that can predict that with accuracy.

 

[Froome]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

If we compare Pogacar 2023 to Pogacar 2024, he is 100% out of nowhere.

 

[Cookster15]

It’s not a primary argument for me but you can’t deny the transformation was rapid from 2018 to all the sudden winning 3 GT stages and being a top name in the peloton the year he moved to UAE. And if he’s that good at 20 then why not 19?

So how did Gianetti know he was a super responder back then? Luck? Even so this takes more than super responding.

There must be an Armstrong factor (look the other way), else, I fear motors. He looks so fresh. Even if motors there must be some kind of corruption involved as I assume his bike would need to be checked. I refuse to believe you can hide a motor from a trained mechanic who knows what to look for - even magnetic assistance. And the relaxed confidence from Pog suggests he isn't worried about being caught.

 

[Nick2413]

If we compare Pogacar 2023 to Pogacar 2024, he is 100% out of nowhere.

I remember the days when Pogacar couldn’t outright solo to the win in zone 2 at Il Lombardia and had to sprint against Masnada.

 

[Cookster15]

He'll do a Pantani on AdH and ride into the crowd...

And still break the record

The 2025 Tour route has yet to be announced. Perhaps they won't have an AdH stage to avoid embarrassment. If someone like Vingegaard attacked near the bottom then I fear what Pogacar would do to Marco's record. I never thought this before PdB in the Tour.

 

[Rackham]

I feel like I see a bit more "everyone's doping anyway".

I think Pog is doing other dopers a huge favor. Nothing they do will ever be as absurd as his 2024 season. He's allowing so many riders to fly under the radar it's not even funny.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So how did Gianetti know he was a super responder back then? Luck? Even so this takes more than super responding.

There must be an Armstrong factor (look the other way), else, I fear motors. He looks so fresh. Even if motors there must be some kind of corruption involved as I assume his bike would need to be checked. I refuse to believe you can hide a motor from a trained mechanic who knows what to look for - even magnetic assistance. And the relaxed confidence from Pog suggests he isn't worried about being caught.

Motors is really something that would make me stop watching the sport. This is not even cycling anymore, the idea of moving using the power of your own engine... As for UAE, they surely made a series of tests on Teddy before he joined. They measured his current VO2max, anaerobic threshold, assessed how much weight he can lose with a better training and what are his blood values etc.

 

[vwpe]

If we compare Pogacar 2023 to Pogacar 2024, he is 100% out of nowhere.

I disagree. He crushed everyone last season aswell all up untill he broke his wrist, everyone from flandern to PN very handy aswell I must say including MvdP and Vingegaard very handy. Hardly a good nor fair point to judge from when he had and rode with a broken wrist if were beeing objective i mean. And not news for people.

And he won the Tour at age 20, if Pogacar came out of nowhere who won the tour at 20 I dont know what to say. Sure if we go back to when he was 15/16 he came out of nowhere but again hardly a very fair measurement stick. Lets stick to beeing relevant at least😅.

 

[Cookster15]

As for UAE, they surely made a series of tests on Teddy before he joined. They measured his current VO2max, anaerobic threshold, assessed how much weight he can lose with a better training and what are his blood values etc.

But how did Pogacar come to UAE's attention in the first place?

 

[Casual cyclist]

Was he just chatting with the camera bike with a smirk on his face and looking pretty physically unstressed?

Exactly. It's been just like that all year. So he either has 100+ (big plus) VO2 max or his means of propulsion is of some other nature than purely biological.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But how did Pogacar come to UAE's attention in the first place?

He was a talent of course.

 

[Stablo]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

This 100%! This season has been so disgusting. Tortured myself and watched the clown show today. Well at least saw again how easy the riding looks when you're over doped and every race also makes me more sure about the motor assistance. A very hard race and fresh as a daisy, at the end of a long season full of ET performances. Leaving a generational talent like Remco over three minutes behind 🤣what an absolute joke this has become.

 

[Rackham]

I found Pog way more 'endearing' (if one can use such a word to describe these guys) last year tbh. Aka when he actually had to 'fight'.

What's happened in 2024 is something I've never seen before, ever. All prior notions about peaking etc. have gone completely out the window. And when people mention Pog being a great natural talent, maybe so, I won't dispute that, but what's also true is UAE have absolutely smashed everyone this season. Sivakov was sh*tting all over the guys spat out behind Pog's attack today in Lombardia after he'd pulled to set up Pog's attack himself. I mean... come on guys, this has sophisticated and organized team doping written all over it.

BTW there's no 'lsser of two evils' or anything here, i.e. what Pog has done this season is basically take Vingegaard's impossible, laughable & grotesque Combloux performance... and do that practically all year. With some performances standing out versus others on the WTF am I watching scale.

 

[Casual cyclist]

So how did Gianetti know he was a super responder back then? Luck? Even so this takes more than super responding.

There must be an Armstrong factor (look the other way), else, I fear motors. He looks so fresh. Even if motors there must be some kind of corruption involved as I assume his bike would need to be checked. I refuse to believe you can hide a motor from a trained mechanic who knows what to look for - even magnetic assistance. And the relaxed confidence from Pog suggests he isn't worried about being caught.

Sorry, could not resist: No s**t, Sherlock.

 

[42x16ss]

If we compare pre UAE Pogacar to now, he is 100% out of nowhere.

Well, pre-UAE he was an espoir, and won L'Avenir and other stage races. So not out of nowhere, just not this reincarnation of Merckx

 

[42x16ss]

But how did Pogacar come to UAE's attention in the first place?

By winning L'Avenir and other races as an 18 yo? He's hardly a donkey to racehorse story, more like a Pantani style perfect storm of insane amounts of talent, dope, and ability to respond to that dope.

 

[Extinction]

Don't be so pessimistic. Remco was great - again. He's had his best ever season. Take a way Pog and we would be lauding Remco.

Great again? He lost three minutes against the homunculus. He was nowhere near even competative in all their confrontations. It's like Verrocchio never taking up the brush again, when he saw what Leonardo could do. The huge problem now is for Belgium and Lafevbre. Money is scarce and who wants to keep paying a champion's salary to a loser, who shall never win against the homunculus.