Inspection. Bikes can be pulled apart. Bottom brackets, seat tubes, wheels. hubs. Not difficult or expensive to police.
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Returning to that discussion. Did you see that Pidcock was deselected by "management decision" and not based on performance. Recalling that he seems to by a spunky outspoken kid, would you not say that my original hypothesis may not have been all that wrong after all. Say, during a pre-race team meeting, discussing tactics for Lombardia, he blurbs something like "good luck trying to follow an e-bike". And, for the team management that was already filled in on the rules of the game for this year, that's a bit too much to allow. Thus, "deselection by management decision."
TBH when I was watching yesterday I couldn't believe that he was battling with Mas 2 years ago
His "base" level this year is enough to win almost all races in style (i.e. Giro, Liege, Catalunya) while his peak is absolutely scary, by far the highest level ever seen.
Seriously, is it Aprli 1st yet?Trained mechanics can't find motors? UCI mechanics open the bottom brackets? I mentioned in other posts that only UCI collusion can allow that. Brushless motors are round. They can't be "distributed" as you put it. You are referring to possible magnetic assistance which I also doubt. As I also mentioned Formula 1 don't get away with such cheating and that sport has budgets that (still) dwarf anything that oil money invests in cycling. I am using Occum's razor here.
Edit: And no need to exaggerate about "500W while in zone 2, chatting away, smile on the weasel-like face". Nobody has suggested Indurain power level until now.
Of course they can... if they are allowed. Of course, a collusion is involved. How else would you pull it off? Go back to WCRR discussion here and find that reference to an altercation between UAE mechanic and a race official apparently involving something like that: the latter unknowingly wanting to take Pog's bike for an inspection, and the former refusing to release it.As to 500W, check out that race-winning acceleration in Lombardia. It is at least 700W. Then he settles into an easy to him pace still increasing the gap. Would you not say that has to be close to 500? And he is not even gassed from the original burst. Then on the flat. The "aero-bullet" Remco giving his all and Pog still increases the gap -- in this preferred "coal miner" position. Would not he have to push some 20% more than Remco to do so?
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Inclined to say no too.
I don't think the patterns add up that much. Everyone goes fast, so if it explains all the crazy improvements everyone needs to be on them, and if everyone were on them, I'd think we'd hear something bout that.
This year for the first time ever I actually started fearing this could be the case. Some performances seem so effortless. It would be the end of cycling in my eyes. Standard rocket fuel is still a realistic option though. As @Red Rick posted, the Tour showed progression of various riders from various teams indicating this. I don't know how they can manipulate blood in a way to achieve this kind of performances without ridiculous blood parameter values known from the 90s (which actually indicate oxygen transport ability). Or there is maybe another way to improve thresholds but it still looks a bit like SF compared to blood manipulation.
I also have a theory about the secret of the rocket fuel being in the bottles.
I can't see how it wouldn't show up in blood. But I guess the bio passport is basically broken to the point that they don't pursue high profile cases anymore.
Pogacar even readily admitted the CO thing. Which should be banned by the virtue of 'it's blood vector manipulation'.
it seemed that the passport actually worked better in the 2010s (slowdown). The escalation of power since 2020 (and another jump this year) means that either it became completely useless (still I can't completely get how to improve oxygen carrying capacity to record-breaking levels without passport violations) or there's also something else going on affecting metabolism (on top of moderate blood manipulation).
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They admitted it for testing. I think it'd have to be used as a "hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF) activating agent" to fall under S2.1.2, and I guess you'd need greater dose than for testing to see it have that effect?
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It is a shame people can just say whatever without any evidence I agree but that is all it is. And seeing most of the names your smart enough to figure out the rest, you shouldnt bother. Pogacar is the most beloved and revered rider since Pantani and likely even more. Comparing him to Armstrong you should care about, Armstrong wasnt even half the rider Pogacar is.
I don’t see why this would be true. Technically the bio passport is sound, legally there has been issues making cases stick but I don’t see those as insurmountable. It all comes back to resolve. Resolve of the UCI versus those who seek an unfair advantage.
Guess we are well and truly *** then
That was as much for tactical reasons as was to suck up to the French media. Johan Bruyneel still talks that kind of tactics on his podcast. Additionally, it did not endear LA much to anybody as it seems.
The thing is, I believe, that even if Pog is cheating he would not consider it as cheating. We have heard that many people who confessed said that they kinda knew it was wrong but that everybody was doing it (obviously they would say this rather than plainly "yes I wanted to dope to be better) and therefore what they were doing is really just playing on a level field. Additionally, if one trains all the time and puts as much work in being the best as the top riders (Pog included) there is no way one should be thinking of giving away a victory other than to a teammate.
Maybe if one is doping and doing something illegal such ideas of flying under the radar and gifting stuff would come into play, but maybe that is why Pog is not doing it. Some 4D chess going on...
In any case (say everybody is clean) I am a firm belieber of never gifting anything and always going for the victory if possible and tactically justifiable.
As a final comment, I believe that the peloton as a whole is much more professional and trains much better than the cyclists from 15 years ago (or even more recently) and this has to be taking into consideration when making performance plausibility estimations.
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Yeah, just imagine if they were to start using motors in F1...
Nah…. It’s just that Cummings is a useless DS and he pointed it out. I am guessing he’s said worse in private and the rumour is that he told them that he is leaving
Not difficult or expensive to pull every single bike apart before and after every race/stage?
. Formula 1 is highly regulated including restricting the use of supplementary electric motors to recycle otherwise wasted energy (how much power the motors provide). F1 is also way more technical and complicated than bicycles - including any with possible motors. If you can't hide motors in F1 I can't see how its possible to hide motors on bikes checked by trained UCI mechanics. And as I mentioned even with reduced budgets recently, F1 money dwarfs what UAE would be willing to spend. Only collusion (corruption) allows for this. Not saying that isn't possible.
No. Very simple for trained mechanics. And they don't pull apart every bike - only the stage winners. Pretty sure those are the race regs now?
Don't quote me on this but what they are supposed to be doing is to X-Ray the stage/race winner's bike using a big portable X-Ray machine along with 4/5 other bikes from the top ten.
But said X-Ray machine needs a truck to transport/house so I am not sure whether it's used outside of Grand Tours, Monuments etc.
They also have the ipads and I've heard that they have thermal cameras in the comissaire's car(s) that they make random checks with.
Now whether or not they are doing what they claim to be doing is a different matter, the last article I'd found on this was from 2018 (I think it was cycling weekly or bikeradar) but I can't be asked to look for it now. It's something though that a semi-competent and somewhat curious journalist could easily find out. And that is why I am sceptical (though a lot more receptive) regarding motor doping, you have all kinds of people that have access to bikes before stages, from journalists to youtubers and pocasters, all it takes is someone who knows what to look for and have the means to look for it and you'll be on youtube...
I’ve mostly only entertained the idea of motors from a theoretical perspective but I’m also not sold on it yet at least for the majority of performances. Something massive is definitely happening though, beyond basic blood doping.
I think the UCI has been checking for motors for a few years now. And not just X-Ray machines or thermal detectors but physically pulling apart the race winners bike after each stage. If this is right, then Pog's bike should have been inspected for every one of the 6 stages he won at the Tour. I still think blood manipulation, collusion or combination of both are more likely than motors.
I also don't buy the some new substance meme. Any new substance is in theory detectable. Even if the substance itself has left the bloodstream or urine usually there are markers which can detected. Remember Contador got nailed for having a minute proportion of clenbuturol in his blood. Blood manipulation via autologous infusion is always harder to nail which is why the passport was developed to check against a rider's biological baseline.
Found this article which looks like was posted before the Tokyo Olympics. But I agree with you that what the UCI claim and what they might actually be doing may not be the same.
Tour de France: UCI says no infractions following 720 inspections for 'motor doping'
New detection methods for 'technological fraud' will be rolled out at the Tokyo Olympic Games for track, road and mountain bike disciplines.
velo.outsideonline.com
I don't think motor doping is being used by Pogacar . Its a bit like suggesting that Elvis is still alive and the moon landings were staged as the flag was fluttering. For one thing UCI would have no reason to be in collusion with UAE nor would they want to. I am not that cynical. And I cant see Pog doing it anyway as it is too risky
When we talk about doping I dont believe we are talking about doing something that is from the current banned list of PEDs or anything that is a mechanical advantage
However I do believe that Pog has this year been riding with an advantage, that is new , that the others have not yet caught up with and though probably not illegal (yet) is morally questionable. I think he and UAE can wholeheartedly say and think that they are clean as their advantage cannot be pointed to as such/illegal by anyone from the UCI
What can it be ? I dont know but you would have to be as blind as a bat not to see his improvement since last year and his miraculous ability to never get tired are normal. Top riders are on their hands and knees after races and he is still jumping up and down and is never ever tired. On rest days he doesn't even have to rest.
This whole zone 2 and more sugar explanations is so ridiculous. A human body gets tired esp after racing 2 GTs. He does not seem to recognise that alot of how he behaves makes it all more questionable though the comms on ES would have you believe its all down to his physiology
In the 2023 Tour when he bonked and said he was 'dead' I think was like some turning point for him . I think he knew then he was going to do anything to not be there again in that position. Pogacar has a massive ego that he camouflages very well but he hates being beaten.
I also think his decision to not go to the Olympics now looks very shady when in his form he could have been walking away with Olympic gold and its hard to believe he did not want a chance at that achievement
Not an achievement of Merkx ? Would have elevated Pog's year and palmares into the stratosphere.
Unless the others get on the programme or UAE/Pog are sanctioned for whatever they are up to we are going to see alot of Pog domination.Oh well it just means I wont be watching much cycling in 2025. I love the sport for the unpredictability and tactics , none of which are on display in the world of domination. Its just so unexciting
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