Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

The funny thing with cycling is that it is a sport in the unusual position of having one person who appears to be a head and shoulders above the rest. Merckx's palmares are stunning whatever way you look at it. Some argue that Pogacar is en route to equalling or surpassing Merckx's career, but he is some way off that yet.

Whatever cocktail Tadej is on, legal and illegal, must be powerful stuff. He might be a rare super-responder, but surely it will shorten his career. Valverde and Rebellin maybe demonstrate that doping can keep you going longer, but all that year-round, all-out, gung-ho racing-to-win that Tadej does must be demanding.

Time will tell...

To quote a fictional character from the world of 'finance' ...

Greed is good

 

[noob]

absolutely not Clinic related. I don't like the "golden boy" aura, him smashing every CX race with a finger in his nose, his super car, his team. no hate, no clinic accusations. I just hope sometimes someone can beat him, and it rarely happens.
talking about Pog, I know and I rode with a former UAE team staff member, I'm not a Jumbo-Roglic fan so I enjoyed Pog winning that Tour. (I also disliked his Giro where he came to have a stroll around Italy, it was too easy it looked unreal)
sometimes the fans "likes and dislikes" are not easy to explain, or there are no true reasons, but sympathy and subtle things.
just check how Ineos pollution was perceived vs Total pollution. nice French team vs the British baddies. and none of the sudden new-born-environment-aware Ineos detractors had anything to say about Total (French coast oil disasterc etc...) NOTHING
so the like-dislike is very subjective

I can understand people hate MvdP. But I suffer for him instead. Imagine having to win everything or feeling like a useless piece of *** if you don't. To have the pressure from generations of cyclists on your shoulders. To be so stressed out you run and slam teenage girls to the floor because you cannot sleep and have to win tomorrow's race. To know you only have a few years to make it and then it's all gone. That stress. Such a perfect cocktail for ending up with substance abuse when it's all over.

It goes for all of them. But being of a cycling heritage comes with a special kind of pressure. 💔

 

[Froome]

I don't think he is less stronger than last year.

I think this year, the gap decreased because other teams are starting to use the same gas he was taking last year.

 

[acm]

No team car, no win.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I don't think he is less stronger than last year.

I think this year, the gap decreased because other teams are starting to use the same gas he was taking last year.

I think Paris Roubaix took a lot more out of him than everyone thought.

 

[Froome]

I think Paris Roubaix took a lot more out of him than everyone thought.

It would be quite surprising since this new fuel didn't let him show fatigue last year.

 

[noob]

I don't think he is less stronger than last year.

I think this year, the gap decreased because other teams are starting to use the same gas he was taking last year.

If so I'm here for it. An arms race at least is fun to watch.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think he is less stronger than last year.

I think this year, the gap decreased because other teams are starting to use the same gas he was taking last year.

I still think it's a dosing/super responding thing rather than something super unique nobody else is on.

 

[Rou]

I think a very likely scenario is that both Visma and UAE agreed behind the scenes after last year's Tour that enough is enough and this is too much. This is why Pog and Jonas look more human this year.
Don't be surprised when the speeds in the TDF 25 are lower than last year.

 

[zlev11]

the look on Gianetti's face after the finish was priceless

 

[Rou]

the look on Gianetti's face after the finish was priceless

His remote control ran out of battery the last 15 kms. Hehe.

 

[Ripper]

the look on Gianetti's face after the finish was priceless

Oh, I have not seen this!

 

[MartinGT]

I think a very likely scenario is that both Visma and UAE agreed behind the scenes after last year's Tour that enough is enough and this is too much. This is why Pog and Jonas look more human this year.
Don't be surprised when the speeds in the TDF 25 are lower than last year.

Well, Visma look more human, Poh certainly doesn't

 

[Froome]

Well, Visma look more human, Poh certainly doesn't

They are already cooking something for the Tour.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Usually someone that dopes targets a couple of races to perform on a high level only to later go off cycle and decline in ability. There is no such trend with Pogacar, he is always fighting for victory, his trajectory is consistent all year round. What's suspicious to me is Vingegaard not racing until Dauphine, I wonder what sauce Visma is gonna marinate their fish with this time.

 

[Ripper]

Usually someone that dopes targets a couple of races to perform on a high level only to later go off cycle and decline in ability. There is no such trend with Pogacar, he is always fighting for victory, his trajectory is consistent all year round. What's suspicious to me is Vingegaard not racing until Dauphine, I wonder what sauce Visma is gonna marinate their fish with this time.

It looks like you meant to post this in Vinnie's thread?

Targeting a period of racing or specific races is just targeting races, building and tapering. It has been a normal tenet of endurance sports for a long, long time. Both doping and non-doping. Because one cannot hold peak condition all year long ... well not normally.

So, yes, dopers will target peak racing alongside their doping practices, and there can be a big variation in their performance. But this is also true of non-doping.

This is not to say that disappearing for large swaths of the season is not suspicious. I would say it certainly can be, as can performing head and shoulders above everyone else, all year long.

 

[topcat]

Pog is dominating cycling. The Pog thread is dominating the prr forum. The Pog thread is dominating the clinic. I expect an insane performance from both Vingo and the Pog in the tour. Nobody is coming out of this smelling of roses.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

His remote control ran out of battery the last 15 kms. Hehe.

It‘s not like he blew up or something, Remco catching up isn‘t that surprising. Sometimes You’re just tired after you solo for 30 kilometers

 

[Ripper]

It‘s not like he blew up or something, Remco catching up isn‘t that surprising. Sometimes You’re just tired after you solo for 30 kilometers

For most people, sure, this is 100% true. But I don't think there have been too many successful chase downs of Thaddijay de Poggio in the past 1.5 years or so?

 

[pelotonIQ]

It looks like you meant to post this in Vinnie's thread?

Targeting a period of racing or specific races is just targeting races, building and tapering. It has been a normal tenet of endurance sports for a long, long time. Both doping and non-doping. Because one cannot hold peak condition all year long ... well not normally.

So, yes, dopers will target peak racing alongside their doping practices, and there can be a big variation in their performance. But this is also true of non-doping.

This is not to say that disappearing for large swaths of the season is not suspicious. I would say it certainly can be, as can performing head and shoulders above everyone else, all year long.

Anyone can target races without doping, never said you cant, but since this is about doping I'll stick to the topic of doping. If someone were to use doping, it would be more likely that they dope under the guise of the ''tenets of endurance sports''. Pick out a couple of races as 'targets' during a season to then dope to increase their ability and hit their 'peak' ahead of targeted race and voilà. This is how most dopers play the game today.

Pogacar doesn't fit that description because his form is consistent, his trajectory is consistent. He's been riding the same way season after season which gives him some sort of legitimacy compared to someone like Vingegaard that looks beatable outside of TdF but in the tour the guy becomes twice as strong, same trajectory as Lance Armstrong.

 

[Cookster15]

Well, Visma look more human, Poh certainly doesn't

Arrogant Visma got schooled on stage 15 of the 2024 TdF. I struggle to be sympathetic to Visma about anything since after what we saw in 2022 and particularly after the frankly absurd and grotesque Combloux TT in the 2023 TdF. Lest we forget.

 

[Cookster15]

would say it certainly can be, as can performing head and shoulders above everyone else, all year long.

Wouldn’t that suggest he is simply more naturally talented? ie, like Valverde but at a higher level? Or dare I suggest, like Eddy?

The OP started this thread after the LPdBF TT when Pogacar took yellow off a presumptuous Visma (Roglic). Before then he was super young and yet already had many good results stringing back to the 2019 ToC and before. I simply cannot apportion all his rapid improvement to nothing more than superior doping. Not at that young age.

 

[pastronef]

Wouldn’t that suggest he is simply more naturally talented? ie, like Valverde but at a higher level? Or dare I suggest, like Eddy?

The OP started this thread after the LPdBF TT when Pogacar took yellow off a presumptuous Visma (Roglic). Before then he was super young and yet already had many good results stringing back to the 2019 ToC and before. I simply cannot apportion all his rapid improvement to nothing more than superior doping. Not at that young age.

he won the second stage race he raced after turning pro. Algarve, Feb 2019.

 

[Red Rick]

For most people, sure, this is 100% true. But I don't think there have been too many successful chase downs of Thaddijay de Poggio in the past 1.5 years or so?

This is the 2nd one, after Le Lorian in the Tour.

But it's happened to him a few more times that he starts running out of gas at the end of a long attack, such as the cobbled stage of the 2022 Tour or the 2024 WC.

 

[topcat]

For the second time in his career, Pog attacked, was caught and beaten in the sprint. I don't think this is a cause for celebration. It's something. It does not make Pog human. Pog almost won the sprint except Skjelmose did a great job at playing possum. Are we going to celebrate if Pog almost gets beaten at Liege?
The funny thing about almost is that it almost never matters.