Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Lorzenz08]

Very concerning when you also have to remember, that he was already overall the number one cyclist before the winter of 23/24. I saw some estimates on the watts page, that it's even between 10-15% he got better and of course never get's tired on any terrain with continious peak level.

Of course he does get tired. Stage 11 in 2024 he was cooked. Amatel Gold Race 2025 he was cooked. Last 30km of Paris Roubaix he was cooked.
His floor is just higher than the others.

 

[BubbaChuck]

how is pog worst.no sudden peaks,no hidding on camp for months.not looking like chump in october and than superman in july.you can wake up pog on christmas day and he will kill you.you wake up remco or joans and they cant get on neighbours hill.blood bags didbnot work like that,lmao.

 

[Epicycle2]

Of course he does get tired. Stage 11 in 2024 he was cooked. Amatel Gold Race 2025 he was cooked. Last 30km of Paris Roubaix he was cooked.
His floor is just higher than the others.

But what was really odd was that he was cooked at Amstel after a tough Roubaix then just 3 days later won Fleche more easily than any rider I can remember.

 

[Rob5091]

We still don't know what happened at the Tour in 2023 on stage 5 when he lost over a minute to Vingegaard, and then que surprise! next day followed Visma's all out attempt to get more time and even won the stage! That's recovery! (sounds too much like's Froome's 2017 Vuelta escapade when he got a slapped wrist for "his body producing Salbutamol" after struggling one day, then beating everyone the next day - also, "That's recovery!")

 

[Stablo]

Of course he does get tired. Stage 11 in 2024 he was cooked. Amatel Gold Race 2025 he was cooked. Last 30km of Paris Roubaix he was cooked.
His floor is just higher than the others.

Yes his of days are really bad and come very often. Come on, look at the other very top riders results from the past almost two years now. You are just making the point even clearer, he was very suspicious even before that jump in 23/24, after that it has just been out of this solar system. In P-R he was only "cooked" after the fall and realising he can't catch MDVP anymore, a guy who should always be a huge favourite against him on a route like that. Amstel and that Tour stage number two again and soo cooked and out of peak shape on those ones.

Edit. And if the ceiling would be a bit higher in any normal way, the off days would be more and the wouldn't lead to a top2, period.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes his of days are really bad and come very often. Come on, look at the other very top riders results from the past almost two years now. You are just making the point even clearer, he was very suspicious even before that jump in 23/24, after that it has just been out of this solar system. In P-R he was only "cooked" after the fall and realising he can't catch MDVP anymore, a guy who should always be a huge favourite against him on a route like that. Amstel and that Tour stage number two again and soo cooked and out of peak shape on those ones.

Edit. And if the ceiling would be a bit higher in any normal way, the off days would be more and the wouldn't lead to a top2, period.

Look at Mathieu's, Jonas' and Remco's results from the previous two years.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

But what was really odd was that he was cooked at Amstel after a tough Roubaix then just 3 days later won Fleche more easily than any rider I can remember.

"Cooked" he was still putting time on everybody bar vdp in Roubaix and second in the sprint in Amstel, after a stupid solo. "Cooked" seems quite hyperbolic to me.

 

[Salvarani]

Of course he does get tired. Stage 11 in 2024 he was cooked. Amatel Gold Race 2025 he was cooked. Last 30km of Paris Roubaix he was cooked.
His floor is just higher than the others.

He has been tired and lost a few times.

As you say, just a higher floor and great talent as well.

 

[Stablo]

Look at Mathieu's, Jonas' and Remco's results from the previous two years.

Yes exactly not even in the same universe compared to pogs.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes exactly not even in the same universe compared to pogs.

No,but each of them have amazing results

 

[Stablo]

No,but each of them have amazing results

Sure they are if you want to downplay what pog has being doing. Like I said it's not even close, they are great riders, but they have weaknesses, not dominating all terrain, all season long and always fresh, to the extent that a worst day is top3 anyway.

 

[AmRacer]

Sure they are if you want to downplay what pog has being doing. Like I said it's not even close, they are great riders, but they have weaknesses, not dominating all terrain, all season long and always fresh, to the extent that a worst day is top3 anyway.

You are downplaying what the others have being doing.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

That's simply because they didn't get such results. Rogla is a long way behind Pogacar now and his best was maybe 5 years back. Sagan wasn't a GC rider.

But as mods we look very closely at any comments bordering on racist or xenophobic. Please use the report button if you see any such.

So, in other words, it has nothing to do with where they're from and everything to do with how dominant they are. Seems to be exactly the point I was trying to make. Pogi doesn't get hate because of racism or xenophobia, which was the claim of the original post I replied to.

 

[Stablo]

You are downplaying what the others have being doing.

Surely i have🙄. You honestly think that is somehow in the same ballpark? Do you live in some sort of alternative reality or what are we talking about, well feel free to disagree of course, but facts really can't be even debated. Even with the magical oneliners.

 

[AmRacer]

Surely i have🙄. You honestly think that is somehow in the same ballpark? Do you live in some sort of alternative reality or what are we talking about, well feel free to disagree of course, but facts really can't be even debated. Even with the magical oneliners.

Nope, but you are. I do agree with you though, that facts cannot be debated. Therefore, oneliners are good enough.

 

[scribers]

how is pog worst.no sudden peaks,no hidding on camp for months.not looking like chump in october and than superman in july.you can wake up pog on christmas day and he will kill you.you wake up remco or joans and they cant get on neighbours hill.blood bags didbnot work like that,lmao.

Sums it up to me. Not naive enough to believe folks in cycling know what clean is, but come on already lol

 

[Stablo]

Nope, but you are. I do agree with you though, that facts cannot be debated. Therefore, oneliners are good enough.

Surely you are trolling/flaming now. I said before that they have had good results aswell, but it's not even close. Besides most of the results are from races when pog wasn't participating. And you are somehow saying im wrong with that fact. It is not even about blaming pog, but simple cold hard facts about the results of the different riders. I give up🙏🏼

 

[Abedfo]

Of course he does get tired. Stage 11 in 2024 he was cooked. Amatel Gold Race 2025 he was cooked. Last 30km of Paris Roubaix he was cooked.
His floor is just higher than the others.

Being cooked is literally being dropped by the Peloton on the first serious climb. Finishing on the podium isn't being cooked man. Come on.

 

[AmRacer]

Surely you are trolling/flaming now. I said before that they have had good results aswell, but it's not even close. Besides most of the results are from races when pog wasn't participating. And you are somehow saying im wrong with that fact. It is not even about blaming pog, but simple cold hard facts about the results of the different riders. I give up🙏🏼

So the benchmark is Pogi?
Remco hasn't really won over Pogi, other than flat TT's.
Jonas has left Pogi in the dust, twice.
Mathieu played with Pogi, managed to get him fourth instead of second. And MSR, and now PR where he played with Pogi.
.
So, according to you. The only thing that counts is winning of the 🐐.
All their other wins don't count?

 

[scribers]

So the benchmark is Pogi?
Remco hasn't really won over Pogi, other than flat TT's.
Jonas has left Pogi in the dust, twice.
Mathieu played with Pogi, managed to get him fourth instead of second. And MSR, and now PR where he played with Pogi.
.
So, according to you. The only thing that counts is winning of the 🐐.
All their other wins don't count?

It's all zero sum game for folks in here. Bring one down to equalize another.

But who knows, maybe the day will come and the doping practices will be revealed for all to see? I'm not that naive having watched this stuff for so long.

 

[AmRacer]

It's all zero sum game for folks in here. Bring one down to equalize another.

But who knows, maybe the day will come and the doping practices will be revealed for all to see? I'm not that naive having watched this stuff for so long.

The peloton is faster than ever. Every year.

 

[Stablo]

So the benchmark is Pogi?
Remco hasn't really won over Pogi, other than flat TT's.
Jonas has left Pogi in the dust, twice.
Mathieu played with Pogi, managed to get him fourth instead of second. And MSR, and now PR where he played with Pogi.
.
So, according to you. The only thing that counts is winning of the 🐐.
All they other wins don't counts?

What are you even talking about anymore. I said the results are not in the same ballpark at all. We were talking about the last two seasons, when the crazy performance jump from already the world number one cyclist came. Did Jonas beat the monster in 24/25? MSR&PR are the playground of MDVP a specialist on those kind of races, but surely also the high mountain goat getting only on podium there is bad or something. Anyway this has all been discussed here multiple times before and not going to dig in any deeper again.

 

[Stablo]

It's all zero sum game for folks in here. Bring one down to equalize another.

That was in no way my point. Pog has been way above the others for almost two seasons already, all year long. And even before the magical performance jump, he was the best. Now it has only been ridicilous.

 

[scribers]

That was in no way my point.

It's a good thing I didn't quote you then

 

[AmRacer]

What are you even talking about anymore. I said the results are not in the same ballpark at all. We were talking about the last two seasons, when the crazy performance jump from already the world number one cyclist came. Did Jonas beat the monster in 24/25? MSR&PR are the playground of MDVP a specialist on those kind of races, but surely also the high mountain goat getting only on podium there is bad or something. Anyway this has all been discussed here multiple times before and not going to dig in any deeper again.

22/23 do keep up. Good 👍 you want to end this meaningless exchange.