Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Red Rick]

Yes, leagues below PdB performance when Jorgenson had a long 7+ w/kg pull and Vingegaard was also super strong. Vingo's performance was also below his 2022 level (when they fought hard from Spendelles).

Jorgenson's pull was not 7W/kg.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Jorgenson's pull was not 7W/kg.

It was. Not only according to calculation guys but also Pogacar itself.

 

[Red Rick]

It was. Not only according to calculation guys but also Pogacar itself.

Cyclists are known to be the most reliable people when it comes to watts.

He was pulling at like 1820-1850 VAM at like 9% even the upper end of that is not 7W/kg ever.n

Pogacar is most likely referring to the spikes in there.

 

[meat puppet]

Numbers schnumbers but isn't it all very exciting?

Maybe 2024 was finally the tour of redemption, 25 years late, but anyway.

Which means this is year 2000 and great times are ahead.

 

[ahsoe]

Yeah, he's obviously a laughable juicer but I actually have to say today almost doesn't really move the needle for me.

Bigger question is what the hell happened to Visma and seemingly half the peleton and why UAE was apparently not affected at all. I mean Vingegaard doesn't even put a minute into Johannessen and Onley on a 35+ minutes effort, these are normally the sort of stringe GC guys that were dropped on the previous climb. Yes it was hot but the pace on the previous climb was really soft.

UAE guys were bang average this Tour so far and suddenly there's 4 of them left and none from Visma. Very very weird turn of events, I'm happy that the Pogacar freak show will continue to receive scrutiny (still way too little) but I'd be really curious what actually happened behind the scenes today.

Just a thought. Maybe the rest of the peloton has catched up with Vingegaard and Visma to some degree. Like in the golden EPO days where the peloton by the late mid nineties had catched up with the early users. I don't know, but it is a guess.
Either that, or UAE is indeed protected more than Visma and the others. Or a combination.

Edit: The UAE dominance kills the excitement for me. Just like the Sky dominance did earlier. I have no problem with good performances and someone has to win, but Pogacar is simply too much.

 

[nilfen]

First person ever that got it! Well done Sir!

Hey - I knew what a jaghut is all along!

 

[Cookster15]

The UAE dominance kills the excitement for me. Just like the Sky dominance did earlier. I have no problem with good performances and someone has to win, but Pogacar is simply too much.

Fair enough and I am sure you are not alone today. But this is the nature of not just cycling but elite sport. There are always 'cycles' of dominance (pun not intended). You should have been watching when Indurain snuffed out everyone for 5 straight years.

 

[ahsoe]

Fair enough and I am sure you are not alone today. But this is the nature of not just cycling but elite sport. There are always 'cycles' of dominance (pun not intended). You should have been watching when Indurain snuffed out everyone for 5 straight years.

I did watch from 95 and on. And to be honest, it wasn't much excitement seeing Indurain and Banesto win via mainly good time trials and control in the mountains.

Basically, I have enjoyed the races most in between 'domination' cycles. Between Banesto and US Postal, between US Postal and Sky and between Sky and Pogacar anno 2024 and forward. Which is also why I enjoy the Vuelta as much. Because if the absolute stars participate, they have either crashed out of the Tour or underperformed.

 

[Shakes]

Fair enough and I am sure you are not alone today. But this is the nature of not just cycling but elite sport. There are always 'cycles' of dominance (pun not intended). You should have been watching when Indurain snuffed out everyone for 5 straight years.

Time differences between the winner and second place in the General Classification (GC) at the Tour de France from 1990 to 2024:

YearWinnerRunner-upTime Difference

1990Greg LeMondClaudio Chiappucci2'16"
1991Miguel IndurainGianni Bugno3'36"
1992Miguel IndurainClaudio Chiappucci4'35"
1993Miguel IndurainTony Rominger4'59"
1994Miguel IndurainPiotr Ugrumov5'39"
1995Miguel IndurainAlex Zülle4'35"
1996Bjarne RiisJan Ullrich1'41"
1997Jan UllrichRichard Virenque9'09"
1998Marco PantaniJan Ullrich3'21"
1999Lance Armstrong*Alex Zülle7'37"
2000Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich6'02"
2001Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich6'44"
2002Lance Armstrong*Joseba Beloki7'17"
2003Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich1'01"
2004Lance Armstrong*Andreas Klöden6'19"
2005Lance Armstrong*Ivan Basso4'40"
2006Óscar PereiroAndreas Klöden0'32"
2007Alberto ContadorCadel Evans0'23"
2008Carlos SastreCadel Evans0'58"
2009Alberto ContadorAndy Schleck4'11"
2010Andy Schleck**Denis Menchov1'13"
2011Cadel EvansAndy Schleck1'34"
2012Bradley WigginsChris Froome3'21"
2013Chris FroomeNairo Quintana4'20"
2014Vincenzo NibaliJean-Christophe Péraud7'37"
2015Chris FroomeNairo Quintana1'12"
2016Chris FroomeRomain Bardet4'05"
2017Chris FroomeRigoberto Urán0'54"
2018Geraint ThomasTom Dumoulin1'51"
2019Egan BernalGeraint Thomas1'11"
2020Tadej PogačarPrimož Roglič0'59"
2021Tadej PogačarJonas Vingegaard5'20"
2022Jonas VingegaardTadej Pogačar2'43"
2023Jonas VingegaardTadej Pogačar7'29"
2024Tadej PogačarJonas Vingegaard3'36"

Indurain made everything on TTs. He didn't demolish others on climbs (hills, cobbles, Flemish hills, etc). Time differences are much larger than historically. It's ridiculous. I am longing for the 2010s again.

 

[Stablo]

Fair enough and I am sure you are not alone today. But this is the nature of not just cycling but elite sport. There are always 'cycles' of dominance (pun not intended). You should have been watching when Indurain snuffed out everyone for 5 straight years.

And how was Indurain in the classics? Did he win every race he entered from early spring to late autumn and with ease? This is way worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime. He is this supercharged Armstrong and I just don't get how are they letting this happen again. Guess it's the UAE connection and money, but honestly guys like Gianetti&Matxin etc. should have been kept further away from the sport than many others, that have been "banned" for life. You give those guys unlimited resources and immunity you get this WWF clownshow.

To say im bored would be an understatement, im frustrated and more annoyed by the state of cycling that I have ever been. I think im going to cancel my subscribtion, cause im not giving my money to this bs anymore and theres options for replays&highlights free too, if needed.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Edit: The UAE dominance kills the excitement for me. Just like the Sky dominance did earlier. I have no problem with good performances and someone has to win, but Pogacar is simply too much.

This is where I am. Like, yeesh, he's winning monuments, world championships, all the grand tours he enters, time trials, mountain stages. I'm so bored.

Like I half expect him to win all 3 jerseys this year and 8 stages including on the Champs.

I watch a lot less now. I'm just expecting him to win everything. It's dreadful. At least with Armstrong he had a focus, and other riders were winning most of the other things. This is freaking awful.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The Clinic is going crazy right now and Mont Ventoux is yet to come... ahahah a unipuerto stage, Mayo's record is going down!

 

[MartinGT]

Everyone was banging on about Pogi using the heavier bike today and when he went thermonuclear not a single peep out of the commentators.

 

[noob]

The Clinic is going crazy right now and Mont Ventoux is yet to come... ahahah a unipuerto stage, Mayo's record is going down!

I would say the clinic is way more resigned and disillusioned than crazy

 

[ontheroad]

This is where I am. Like, yeesh, he's winning monuments, world championships, all the grand tours he enters, time trials, mountain stages. I'm so bored.

Like I half expect him to win all 3 jerseys this year and 8 stages including on the Champs.

I watch a lot less now. I'm just expecting him to win everything. It's dreadful. At least with Armstrong he had a focus, and other riders were winning most of the other things. This is freaking awful.

My interest in a race is now lessened whenever he pulls on a bib. It mostly just seems like a mere formality.

Like if he enters the Vuelta this year it will kill the competition again and dampen down any interest.

This battle for yellow in this Tour is over barring a crash but the real fight is for the third spot on the podium. I don't really care about the yellow jersey anymore, its supposed to be the greatest physical endurance test in sport but he makes it look like a game of tennis.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The Clinic is going crazy right now and Mont Ventoux is yet to come... ahahah a unipuerto stage, Mayo's record is going down!

Ventoux is very prestigious. It used to be the hardest climb in Tour history (until Loze'2020) and it's the most legendary. If Pogi wants to win any stage remaining it's this one.

 

[Mayomaniac]

And how was Indurain in the classics? Did he win every race he entered from early spring to late autumn and with ease? This is way worse than anything I have seen in my lifetime. His this supercharged Armstrong and I just don't get how are they letting this happen again. Guess it's the UAE connection and money, but honestly guys like Gianetti&Matxin etc. should have been kept further away from the sport than many others, that have been "banned" for life. You give those guys unlimited resources and immunity you get this WWF clownshow.

To say im bored would be an understatement, im frustrated and more annoyed by the state of cycling that I have ever been. I think im going to cancel my subscribtion, cause im not giving my money to this bs anymore and theres options for replays&highlights free too, if needed.

Look at all the different cycling discipline WCs that UAE (the state) is hosting for the UCI now and over the next few years. I'm sure the UCI gets payed really well for the right to host them and you can hide some other payments in there pretty easy...

 

[Red Rick]

Time differences between the winner and second place in the General Classification (GC) at the Tour de France from 1990 to 2024:

YearWinnerRunner-upTime Difference

1990Greg LeMondClaudio Chiappucci2'16"
1991Miguel IndurainGianni Bugno3'36"
1992Miguel IndurainClaudio Chiappucci4'35"
1993Miguel IndurainTony Rominger4'59"
1994Miguel IndurainPiotr Ugrumov5'39"
1995Miguel IndurainAlex Zülle4'35"
1996Bjarne RiisJan Ullrich1'41"
1997Jan UllrichRichard Virenque9'09"
1998Marco PantaniJan Ullrich3'21"
1999Lance Armstrong*Alex Zülle7'37"
2000Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich6'02"
2001Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich6'44"
2002Lance Armstrong*Joseba Beloki7'17"
2003Lance Armstrong*Jan Ullrich1'01"
2004Lance Armstrong*Andreas Klöden6'19"
2005Lance Armstrong*Ivan Basso4'40"
2006Óscar PereiroAndreas Klöden0'32"
2007Alberto ContadorCadel Evans0'23"
2008Carlos SastreCadel Evans0'58"
2009Alberto ContadorAndy Schleck4'11"
2010Andy Schleck**Denis Menchov1'13"
2011Cadel EvansAndy Schleck1'34"
2012Bradley WigginsChris Froome3'21"
2013Chris FroomeNairo Quintana4'20"
2014Vincenzo NibaliJean-Christophe Péraud7'37"
2015Chris FroomeNairo Quintana1'12"
2016Chris FroomeRomain Bardet4'05"
2017Chris FroomeRigoberto Urán0'54"
2018Geraint ThomasTom Dumoulin1'51"
2019Egan BernalGeraint Thomas1'11"
2020Tadej PogačarPrimož Roglič0'59"
2021Tadej PogačarJonas Vingegaard5'20"
2022Jonas VingegaardTadej Pogačar2'43"
2023Jonas VingegaardTadej Pogačar7'29"
2024Tadej PogačarJonas Vingegaard3'36"

Indurain made everything on TTs. He didn't demolish others on climbs (hills, cobbles, Flemish hills, etc). Time differences are much larger than historically. It's ridiculous. I am longing for the 2010s again.

Sooner or later, everyone will long for the Sky era. My words were prophetic.

 

[Stablo]

Look at all the different cycling discipline WCs that UAE (the state) is hosting for the UCI now and over the next few years. I'm sure the UCI gets payed really well for the right to host them and you can hide some other payments in there pretty easy...

Totally true and im also thinking this is connected to the lower level of Visma since 2023. Visma got a slap to the wrist and UAE got a free pass to up their program, hence pogs(and others)miraculous rise in level over a few winter months while in the mid twenties. He was already very suspicious before that, but a 10% rise when you are already world number one is just too much. Before he still at least had those human moments, but never after that.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Fair enough and I am sure you are not alone today. But this is the nature of not just cycling but elite sport. There are always 'cycles' of dominance (pun not intended). You should have been watching when Indurain snuffed out everyone for 5 straight years.

Indurain never won a one day road race. There's no comparison.

 

[Shakes]

Sooner or later, everyone will long for the Sky era. My words were prophetic.

I already do indeed. That was logical racing. No watt bombs but eking out max performance at the end. That made sense. Nothing Pogacar, and quite some others, do does.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Has anyone read/watched/heard a critical comment in the press about Pogacars performance today?

 

[pastronef]

Indurain never won a one day road race. There's no comparison.

San Sebastian and the Spanish Nationals (twice)

 

[Raest]

I would say the clinic is way more resigned and disillusioned than crazy

True, he had an estimated 6.75 W/kg over 35 minutes, numbers that were last achieved (prior to 2020) in the EPO era and most of us are like "meh, he underperformed" We are becoming anesthetized to it.

 

[BoobiesAndBloodBags]

They should just remove all doping regulations for cycling. I want to see 10w/kg up the alps next year.