Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[SorelyBoy]

Comments about motors are ridiculing this forum?

Thats why even the UCI President David Lappartient said, that it is still a thing and that the UCI needs better controls?

Thats why the UCI started the “UCI Policy – ‘Fight against Technological Fraud’ Rewards Programme”.?
Because it´s not a thing and because it´s conspiracy?

Motor doping has nothing to do with conspiracy. Motors have already been found, how can you still talk about conspiracy? Motor doping is real, we don´t know how real but it is a problem. Otherwise, the UCI President would hardly say so.

Of course it seems crazy, but to pretend that it is not real is simply wrong.
Insiders and professionals do not express their concerns for fun and with a little respect they should be taken seriously.

So in 2025 there is no more fatigue, no need to peak for a rider like Pog, there are no physical limits (gc riders can even win flat classics and win 2 grand tours in the same year) and all you can say against it is that the material has improved and training optimization has also improved. Yes, it dit, but it still doesn't explain some inhuman performances and thats why people are still talking about motor doping.

Yep. And the logic flaw in the argument that Pogacar’s outlandish mind spinning crushing performances (against already the craziest and fastest pelotons in history I might add) are due to better diet, equipment and training, is to ignore the fact that everyone else at the elite level is doing this too. Something pretty big is going on to account for his level of superiority and recovery rates.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Yep. And the logic flaw in the argument that Pogacar’s outlandish mind spinning crushing performances (against already the craziest and fastest pelotons in history I might add) are due to better diet, equipment and training, is to ignore the fact that everyone else at the elite level is doing this too. Something pretty big is going on to account for his level of superiority and recovery rates.

Very true, people act like it's only Pogacar who has good training/ nutrition equipment ect, its almost like people think the rest of the peloton are still in the 1980's.

 

[Rotted Melon]

Long thread, but has anything like this come up in the discussion? This is just copy pasta from Google search. EPO was a new technology at one time too and the Arabs do seem to have deep pockets. Could Pogacar be a pedaling science experiment?

Performance Enhancing Use of CRISPR Technology

Potential applications in sports doping

• Targeting specific genes: CRISPR could be used to target and modify genes associated with athletic performance, such as those impacting muscle growth, endurance, oxygen delivery, and injury resistance.
• Creating 'super athletes': Theoretically, CRISPR could lead to athletes with enhanced abilities beyond natural human limits, according to SynBioBeta. This could potentially create a new category of genetically enhanced athletes who possess advantages beyond what is achievable through training and nutrition alone.

Regulatory challenges and detection

• Difficulty in detection: Unlike conventional doping, CRISPR-induced genetic modifications could be difficult to detect with existing testing methods, posing a challenge for anti-doping agencies like the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).
• WADA's stance: WADA has already outlawed gene editing and included it in their list of prohibited substances and methods due to its potential to offer limitless competitive advantages at the genetic level.
• Ongoing research for detection: Researchers are actively developing methods to detect gene doping, including identifying foreign DNA sequences or vectors used for gene delivery. However, the evolving nature of gene-editing technologies means that detection methods need continuous refinement and development.

Nevermind, found the search button and see it came up back in April. Carry on.

 

[peterfin]

While motors may have a low probability - not due to the tech but due to the aparent risk to be catched and exposed in a post-race check - we should also acknowledge that they are the perfect cover up if you have things under control. There are no samples collected that can be analysed 10 years later. If you cheat with motors and nobody ever catches you doing so, nobody will ever know.

 

[Notarobot]

Yeah I talked about CRISPR long time ago over here.

 

[E_F_]

So does doping protect you from falling ill? And if so: do we believe vdP is cleanz?

It makes absolutely perfect sense that the best responder on the best program wouldn't get fatigued while another very doped rider does.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I personally think it's most likely just a new form of EPO that's being used. Let's not forget, it was Gianetti who was first to use CERA.

 

[repoman]

So does doping protect you from falling ill? And if so: do we believe vdP is cleanz?

I think it's possible something like HGH would make you less susceptible to illness during a couple weeks of destroying your body.
Also, for the sake of argument say MvdP is clean and he is racing against a doped rider and matching him, that would mean his baseline physiology is doing a lot more work than the doper, he is working harder, causing more stress on his body overall.
FWIW I think MvdP has one of the strongest cases for being clean at his level. Comes from cycling royalty so his genes are going to be as good as you can get, and he was absolutely dominant at pretty much every stage of his career.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

There's just something visually upsetting about watching Vingegaard stand up on the pedals and make a ridiculously forceful acceleration, which Pogi just easily follows while completely seated. The amount of torque needed to generate that sort of power seated is something you'd expect from ridiculous watt monsters like Cancellara, but here we have a light climber doing it ...

 

[FrontHeadlock]

LMAO at Pogacar sprinting to get a 2 second time gap on JV. Holy ***, he's more insecure than most fashion models.

 

[ontheroad]

Pogacar and Vingegaard gained 7 minutes on Mas from the bottom of the climb. Surely must be close to the record. Insane seeing the speed which they travelled up that mountain. Not normal.

 

[burning]

Looks like they beat Mayo by a 1 minute or so, they were very very fast

 

[Ilmaestro99]

All that talk about a headwind before the stage and they've gone a minute faster than the 'unbeatable' Mayo record hahahahah

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Anyone want to hazard the percentage chance that Pogacar will win all 3 jerseys (I don't count the young rider jersey) and 6+ stages when this is all said and done? Feels like it's at least 30%+ at this point.

To update, Pog is now in the lead for KOM and is only 11 points behind Milan for the Green jersey. I guarantee you he is pissed he didn't win this stage. Do *not* be surprised when he goes for the win on the Champs if he's close to winning the Green Jersey.

 

[jono]

All that talk about a headwind before the stage and they've gone a minute faster than the 'unbeatable' Mayo record hahahahah

Shouldn't this be in the Vingegaard thread? He pulled the whole time in the headwind.

 

[E_F_]

Shouldn't this be in the Vingegaard thread? He pulled the whole time in the headwind.

Obviously not..? It was his time. And he followed easily.

 

[jono]

Obviously not..? It was his time. And he followed easily.

Who did more w/kg?

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar and Vingegaard gained 7 minutes on Mas from the bottom of the climb. Surely must be close to the record. Insane seeing the speed which they travelled up that mountain. Not normal.

Mas blew up hard though. They only gained around 4 minutes on the chase group, which isn't outrageous for a Ventoux climb at all.

 

[E_F_]

Who did more w/kg?

Obviously Vingegaard did. Are you accusing me of being unbelievably ignorant?

 

[ontheroad]

Mas blew up hard though. They only gained around 4 minutes on the chase group, which isn't outrageous for a Ventoux climb at all.

Maybe so but the real gauge will be the climbing times. Initial timings have it as one minute inside Mayos record. Which is crazy fast and even visually you could tell that they were flying up it.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Btw, one thing that makes me quite suspicious about Pog getting an "edge" is how insecure he is when he rides with JV and how personal he is making it. Sprinting to the line on a MTF with no chance to win, just to take 2 seconds when he's up 4+ minutes is pretty indicative of that. Pog seems incredibly bitter about 2023 in particular and has a *massive* chip on his shoulder. It almost seems as though he wants to beat JV to the line in every single stage and in every category until the end of time. Even in bunch pelotons on flat stages it seems like he wants to cross ahead of JV.

That type of insecurity and obsession really signals someone who would do anything to get an edge.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe so but the real gauge will be the climbing times. Initial timings have it as one minute inside Mayos record. Which is crazy fast and even visually you could tell that they were flying up it.

I don't think it's that crazy fast, because by 2025 standards I don't think it was a fast record at all.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Tadej Pogacar - Mont Ventoux
54'41"
NEW RECORD

Because that's what you do after winning 4 stages, in a stage with an avg speed of 50 km/h the first 3 hours when you have a bit of a cold, fighting headwind on top of the Ventoux.

 

[ontheroad]

I don't think it's that crazy fast, because by 2025 standards I don't think it was a fast record at all.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Tadej Pogacar - Mont Ventoux
54'41"
NEW RECORD

What's mad is Pogacar wasn't even going full gas.