Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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LeMond's opinion on Pogacar is probably based on his early success at the Tour (the youngest ever double Tour champion: while still only 22 yo), he certainly described Pogacar as "big talent" a few years back.
LeMond is someone in the good graces of the cycling community, he'd never talk *** about the new golden child. They really don't drive the public opinion they usually just parrot it.

It's so weird that former riders, busted or not and confessed or not, are given credibility. Their entire platform is by the cycling community, they will not break with the party lines, and because of their dependence on cycling to be relevant if anything they are less reliable.
 
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Jan 8, 2020
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LeMond is someone in the good graces of the cycling community, he'd never talk *** about the new golden child. They really don't drive the public opinion they usually just parrot it.

It's so weird that former riders, busted or not and confessed or not, are given credibility. Their entire platform is by the cycling community, they will not break with the party lines, and because of their dependence on cycling to be relevant if anything they are less reliable.
Actually they know, but refrain to not lose the only graces they have left.
 
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Nobody questions LeMond because there is nothing to gain by questioning him. He's basically sanctified as America's Clean Jesus of Cycling. Bonus points for near-fatal accident and comeback story.

He can claim *** because nobody questions him. Like a VO2 max of 92.
Sort of a social tap dance done for LeMond. Everyone around him was a doper, and all the Greg vs world rivalries are allowed to exist in folklore.
Fignon and Kelly, Delgado, Jalabert, Indirain, the list or popped and probabilities is just too long. UCI doesn't have the energy or money to rewrite history. And irony abounds with the ability to subject old samples to modern testing.. Cycling should have an asterisk for when they started really caring as a definitive era.
LeMond always a gentleman not to trash dead and damaged who were all gassed to the gills..Greg is always allowed the odd man out status in cycling history, just because.
 
I did use doping but no EPO" seems just like the standard reply for those days

I always thought the standard reply for those days is yes I took EPO but not after 1998.

Right, but since then? Unimmaginable feats, and all to be explained by "natural talent," because he won the Tour young. No suspicion riding for Gianetti, no raised eyebrows? No questions? Mind you, it isn't just Lemond, but apparently the entire cycling journalistic world. It's baffling.

If being the 2nd youngest ever Tour winner isn't talent then what is? Riders like Paul Seixas are an extreme outlier. Pog is still one of the youngest to arrive. Pog is 21 months younger than Vingegaard and only 16 months older than Remco.

On Lemond and Pogacar, Pogi was riding under Gianetti from 2018. Lemond praised Pogacar from his first wins at the ToC and his Vuelta podium of 2019.

But again, why do we think Gianetti is this god of doping? Because he was stupid 17 years ago with Ricco and even stupider as a rider back in the EPO era? Gianetti is a former doper who turned businessman. He is no Michele Ferrari. Gianetti would not have a clue how to safely circumvent the biopassport without triggering an adverse finding. But he can employ doctors with that expertise. That is where I think we should focus here. Doctors like Dr Inigo Millan.
 
Milan may know enough then to lower his profile. Gianetti could then be useful and affable in letting and having a program move as it needs to.
I think there must be more to it than this. "Affable" Gianetti would need to influence the UCI / testers (ITA). Because there are 14 markers supposedly tracked by the biopassport. You can't fool every marker by simply micro dosing EPO.

There must be some kind of collusion going on so the ITA don't check his samples closely enough. Or else it costs too much to get a result which would remove any doubt that lawyers could exploit in court.
 
Jul 30, 2011
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Sure, I was opening a separation of roles for the sake of specificity and not arguing figureheads.

And, no, I don’t think microdosing or anything else is a singular explanation. But which position (by which I mean doping/antidoping) has deeper experience and more to gain in the dope question?

How does that extrapolate to the world and “dope”?
 
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Jan 8, 2020
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I always thought the standard reply for those days is yes I took EPO but not after 1998.



If being the 2nd youngest ever Tour winner isn't talent then what is? Riders like Paul Seixas are an extreme outlier. Pog is still one of the youngest to arrive. Pog is 21 months younger than Vingegaard and only 16 months older than Remco.

On Lemond and Pogacar, Pogi was riding under Gianetti from 2018. Lemond praised Pogacar from his first wins at the ToC and his Vuelta podium of 2019.

But again, why do we think Gianetti is this god of doping? Because he was stupid 17 years ago with Ricco and even stupider as a rider back in the EPO era? Gianetti is a former doper who turned businessman. He is no Michele Ferrari. Gianetti would not have a clue how to safely circumvent the biopassport without triggering an adverse finding. But he can employ doctors with that expertise. That is where I think we should focus here. Doctors like Dr Inigo Millan.
As already stated, Gianetti doesn't have to know anything, but knows who does from expirence and then build upon it. He is, after all, in charge, like Bruyneel, like Riis.
 
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Apr 8, 2023
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. He is no Michele Ferrari. Gianetti would not have a clue how to safely circumvent the biopassport without triggering an adverse finding. But he can employ doctors with that expertise. That is where I think we should focus here. Doctors like Dr Inigo Millan.
This is where I think the big bucks come in with the best of the best and all the latest gizmos and whatchamacallits (the same if not more up to date versions of WADA's own labs). The doctors are key to avoiding detection and boosting performance.
Lazkano was busted on his way to Dr Maynar's home town and as has been pointed out, Slovenia has a current boom of "sports physios" etc. ITA need some Balkan insiders to blow the whistle.
 
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Armstrong wasn’t threatening his finances when he made noise about Ferrari. This is the point about chronology.
Oh no? Trek extinguished their collaboration with Lemond as a result. I don't doubt that Lemond was motivated by the loss on his return of investment for his bike line by Armstrong's success. However, the vile way in which Armstrong attempted to destroy him and others, let's us know who is the "bad guy" in that saga.
 
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Of course, but letting one’s own professional history be triggered to the point of threatening another’s “brand” and business interests could invite that kind of backlash. There are multiple threads on LA, so, again, I’m deeply uninterested in any discussion of his personality and actions.

Conversely, maybe after Lemond felt that EPO ended his career it was unconscionable for another American to succeed with it and decided to pitch his own brand on that hill.

Sorry about the prolepsis, it’s been a long week.
 
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Of course, but letting one’s own professional history be triggered to the point of threatening another’s “brand” and business interests could invite that kind of backlash. There are multiple threads on LA, so, again, I’m deeply uninterested in any discussion of his personality and actions.

Conversely, maybe after Lemond felt that EPO ended his career it was unconscionable for another American to succeed with it and decided to pitch his own brand on that hill.

Sorry about the prolepsis, it’s been a long week.
Armstrong was placed under fire and brought the necessary pressure to bear to break Lemond's livelyhood. No need to be sorry about the prolepsis, as I already got that, but interests are an inevitable condition of socio-economic factors. On the hill one can only be knocked down. It must be seen if falling is justified or not and why.
 
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people really think gianetti is mastermind,lmaoo.pogacar is levels above in everything.who do you think fixed uae.
Nah I don't think he is a mastermind. Cycling sport, and sport in general is just utterly naïeve. Same as with FIFA, it doesn't take Infantino to be a mastermind, it just takes the rest to be so naïeve... Sports is such a corrupt business and its wide in the open for all to see.
 
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But again, why do we think Gianetti is this god of doping? Because he was stupid 17 years ago with Ricco and even stupider as a rider back in the EPO era? Gianetti is a former doper who turned businessman. He is no Michele Ferrari. Gianetti would not have a clue how to safely circumvent the biopassport without triggering an adverse finding. But he can employ doctors with that expertise. That is where I think we should focus here. Doctors like Dr Inigo Millan.
u do realize that Gianetti literally has decades of working with doping, with doping doctors, with doping systems. in fact, it can be argued that it is only through this lens he knows cycling at all. so give me a reason why he would change out of the blue?

also, I agree it is crazy when people here quote Bruyneel, or use Rominger or Indurain as examples. Their ENTIRE careers are completely due to doping. Indurain, likely no donkey per se, would never be able to follow in the mountains without EPO. Rominger, on the other hand, may have been a real donkey, and just a good responder (like Armstrong).
 
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I have always assumed Greg Lemond had the best un-doped physiology for a for cyclist at the onset of the EPO era.
and you would be correct.
In the space of one year (between 1991 and 1992) Lemond couldn't hold mediocre climbers in the mountains.
I would suggest between 1990 and 1991 was the first big change (and in interviews, he agrees), but it's likely a gradual thing over 2-3 years. By 1993, he could not get even the slightest result.
I think that explains why Greg would be aggrieved at what transpired.
he actually is not. he has repeatedly defended all riders who succumbed, despite not being one of them. however, he refused to be bullied by Armstrong, Trek, or Oakley, and won against each of them.
If Lemond didn't have such a high VO2 max score and three Tour wins I doubt he would be so annoyed at what happened in the sport at that time.
he has actually said that it was likely the fact that he had already won that helped not succumb to doping himself. He also attributes (or his wife has said) that cycling needed to be something "pure" in his life after dealing with being sexually abused as a kid.
But for Pogacar I'd be surprised if his VO2 Max was less than 90 and would more likely expect it to be close to a record score based upon what we have been seeing. I think Jonas Vingegaard was said to have scored 97 (by his father) ?
...if Vingo has 97, that would be the record, and it boggles belief what Pog's would then have to be. which makes me all the more doubtful -- not that he is not a talent. But the radical change between 2023 and 2024 sets off alarms in my head. In 2021, he was already a 2-time winner of the TDF, when he was dropped on a hill by Remco (still coming back from his Lombardia crash) and Colbrelli in the Euros. This is absolutely UNFATHOMABLE any more.

Pog is likely a great rider. The last two years though have made everything seem ridiculous. Very, very reminiscent of the arrival of epo in the peloton.