TdF '17 - stage 5: Vittel>La Planche des Belles Filles 160km

[MartinGT]

The pace Kwia put on the front on the early stages of the climb eventually dropped Landa and Heano before they even got on the front!

 

[Carols]

Re:

What was very heartening was neither Froome or team sky were s dominant as we have seen them in the Tour before ...In other years Froome would have blitzed everyone else ...not today ....that gives the other confidence

It means the race is not by any means sown up....

This. There is hope it won't just be a Sky Borefest

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

As I watched it looked bad for Contador, but in theory if you told me he'd lose 10 seconds to a peak form Martin and 6 seconds to a peak form Porte in a 2 km steep uphill charge, I would think he was doing pretty well.

It's a 6km uphill charge - the end is steep but it's a proper Cat 1 climb rather than a Mur de Huy style wall.

 

[luckyboy]

Aru looks strong but looks better because they slowed in the final km before the sprint. Looks up to him and Porte to challenge Froome then.

Quintana was surprising in a bad way. Very disappointing

Only two summit finishes left now. This Tour has really flown by!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Keuleire was 90something, I don't get what's so impressive. Unless he was higher in some earlier standing, that might happen.

Never trust results until they are a bit more final

 

[Eclipse]

Re:

The pace Kwia put on the front on the early stages of the climb eventually dropped Landa and Heano before they even got on the front!

90% certain that Landa and Henao's form has been targeted to later in the race and we'll see them doing the Wout Poels for Froome this year.

 

[loge1884]

Betnacur 42nd with only 2'51 behind Aru ..... the guy will smash it in week 3

 

[bigcog]

Where did Fuglsang come ?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Where did Fuglsang come ?

1"07 back

 

[yaco]

Re:

Aru and maybe Porte are the only guys who can challenge Froome. But only challenge.

Today's stage shows what we're seeing the last years: a really really strong Sky team, a solid Froome and rivals who are struggling to hold his wheel.

Posted two weeks that i query the strength of Sky's team. Today did nothing to allay my fear. Thought Froome looked better than Dauphine but need to see more evidence.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Next time they won't let Aru go so let us be more realistic. Nevertheless very good performance by Fabio and the podium looks doable. Quintana can go home, Contador will battle for the last available podium spot with Richie. Froome remains the main favorite.

Not sure SKy could have done anything about Aru today; he was easily the strongest climber. He basically destroyed the Sky train and forced Froome to act earlier than he would have liked. It wasn't like Sky 'let him go', they were basically on their limit when he attacked and could do nothing to reel him in.

He was easily stronger than Thomas, Landa, Henao and also some of the presumed contenders like Quintana and Contador. We don't really know if he was stronger than the four who followed the Sky doms, then chased and then stopped and looked at each other and finally raced each other. He put in a continuous max effort, they didn't. Apples, oranges.

They started looking around, because Froome was unable to keep his attack going. He has the mentality of a predator, specially in the Tour, and wouldn't have stopped and started looking around if he had the legs to continue his attack. That also none of the others countered him, suggests they were all on the limit. All that strongly indicates that they were all weaker than Aru, who started attacking much earlier and kept it going to the line.

Again, we don't know that. Froome knocking off his attack is more likely to be about Porte, his presumed main threat, sitting on his wheel than an outsider up the road. Decisions about whether to go with an attack at 2.2 km with a Sky train pulling are likely to be made on the basis of assumptions about the likely speed the train will go at rather than the strength of the attacker. There are perfectly rational reasons for riders to ride as they did that say nothing about their strength relative to Aru.

All we factually know is that Aru, while putting in a continuous max effort, put 16 to 20 seconds into four riders who put in a significantly sub optimal effort, wasting time behind the Sky doms and then stopping and looking at each other. No objective conclusion about objective strength can be drawn from that apples to oranges comparison, although the question of who was the best racer today was certainly answered.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Next time they won't let Aru go so let us be more realistic. Nevertheless very good performance by Fabio and the podium looks doable. Quintana can go home, Contador will battle for the last available podium spot with Richie. Froome remains the main favorite.

Not sure SKy could have done anything about Aru today; he was easily the strongest climber. He basically destroyed the Sky train and forced Froome to act earlier than he would have liked. It wasn't like Sky 'let him go', they were basically on their limit when he attacked and could do nothing to reel him in.

He was easily stronger than Thomas, Landa, Henao and also some of the presumed contenders like Quintana and Contador. We don't really know if he was stronger than the four who followed the Sky doms, then chased and then stopped and looked at each other and finally raced each other. He put in a continuous max effort, they didn't. Apples, oranges.

Because they didn't have confidence in their abilities. If Froome or Porte weren't on or close the limit, then they wouldn't have stopped to play games. We've seen enough of them in the past to know that's not that when they're feeling good they put the power down and don't look back in that kind of situation.

Do you think Quintana will improve?

I would guess he'd improve a bit. Or maybe just stay about the same while others get worse - so a kind of relative improvement. Looks like he may well need a typical Porte bad day to make the podium though based on this form.

 

[tretiak]

Team Sky train was funny to watch. No communication regarding the pace between the riders.
Froome has got the age syndrom no climbing goat any more.
Pre Froome would have continued go bananas after Aru.

Martin looks good.
Porte OK.
Contador OK.
Aru amazing, hopefully he will follow up this in later stages.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Next time they won't let Aru go so let us be more realistic. Nevertheless very good performance by Fabio and the podium looks doable. Quintana can go home, Contador will battle for the last available podium spot with Richie. Froome remains the main favorite.

Not sure SKy could have done anything about Aru today; he was easily the strongest climber. He basically destroyed the Sky train and forced Froome to act earlier than he would have liked. It wasn't like Sky 'let him go', they were basically on their limit when he attacked and could do nothing to reel him in.

He was easily stronger than Thomas, Landa, Henao and also some of the presumed contenders like Quintana and Contador. We don't really know if he was stronger than the four who followed the Sky doms, then chased and then stopped and looked at each other and finally raced each other. He put in a continuous max effort, they didn't. Apples, oranges.

They started looking around, because Froome was unable to keep his attack going. He has the mentality of a predator, specially in the Tour, and wouldn't have stopped and started looking around if he had the legs to continue his attack. That also none of the others countered him, suggests they were all on the limit. All that strongly indicates that they were all weaker than Aru, who started attacking much earlier and kept it going to the line.

Again, we don't know that. Froome knocking off his attack is more likely to be about Porte, his presumed main threat, sitting on his wheel than an outsider up the road. Decisions about whether to go with an attack at 2.2 km with a Sky train pulling are likely to be made on the basis of assumptions about the likely speed the train will go at rather than the strength of the attacker. There are perfectly rational reasons for riders to ride as they did that say nothing about their strength relative to Aru.

All we factually know is that Aru, while putting in a continuous max effort, put 16 to 20 seconds into four riders who put in a significantly sub optimal effort, wasting time behind the Sky doms and then stopping and looking at each other. No objective conclusion about objective strength can be drawn from that apples to oranges comparison, although the question of who was the best racer today was certainly answered.

It's not just today though. Aru has been absolutely flying for the past six weeks. Today was just the latest chapter in his recent return to form. 20 seconds is a big amount on a climb as short as this; I think it's clear Aru was strongest.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

As I watched it looked bad for Contador, but in theory if you told me he'd lose 10 seconds to a peak form Martin and 6 seconds to a peak form Porte in a 2 km steep uphill charge, I would think he was doing pretty well.

It's a 6km uphill charge - the end is steep but it's a proper Cat 1 climb rather than a Mur de Huy style wall.

Yes, but they were all together with a 2 km uphill charge to go.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

The fact that Froome didn't blow everyone away is a pretty big deal. That gives me quite a bit of hope that we will get a race here. I think Porte probably needed it to be a longer climb ( or climbs) to have more impact. He doesn't have the "burst" that Ari and Froome have. He still looks in good form to me.

 

[Breh]

What on earth were BMC doing today? Porte eventually lost 4seconds because of bonifications.

Sky said they wouldn't chase the BotD.

Bakelants' post race interview was pretty funny. When asked whether he was disappointed by missing le combatif du jour award, he Jokingly said that the tour hostesses probably had a say in it.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Sky and Froome were very weak by their own standards - No hard pacing by them throughout the entire climb length, and a shallow attack by the Alien was not enough today.......... Perhaps the freshness of Aru, a good day from Porte, a surprise attack by Bardet & perhaps an epic assault by Contador can break the Sky train apart.

Sky were weaker on the climb because BMC rode the whole stage at a fast tempo. Its fantastic that Aru is in form because Astana will ride hard the multi mountain stages.

 

[carton]

Gratz to Fabz. Well done. Quite a stage to take wearing the tricolore.

Just to make a point that will surely be widely ignored: this is not a way to defeat the Sky train in the high mountains. This worked on an even 10% grade with 2km to go. As soon as the gradient started to ease Aru started to bleed time.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

[/quote]Do you think Quintana will improve?[/quote]
I would guess he'd improve a bit. Or maybe just stay about the same while others get worse - so a kind of relative improvement. Looks like he may well need a typical Porte bad day to make the podium though based on this form.[/quote]

I don't think that Nairo was greatly disappointing. It's the first week of the race, only a one climb stage, and a not high altitude climb. He is not totally out of it. We have seen Contador follow up from the Giro and lose multiple minutes on the first Tour climb, but Quintana was reasonably competitive. I sense that some will over rate Martin's chances also now. This climb suited him pretty well, and his weaknesses are still to come; third week and multi mountain stages.

 

[lenric]

Can't read much into Porte. He doesn't have that BAM that Aru and Froome have.

 

[lenric]

About Quintana, still have to wait. He hasn't raced since the Giro, so he's getting his race legs back.

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

The fact that Froome didn't blow everyone away is a pretty big deal. That gives me quite a bit of hope that we will get a race here. I think Porte probably needed it to be a longer climb ( or climbs) to have more impact. He doesn't have the "burst" that Ari and Froome have. He still looks in good form to me.

The race is as done and dusted as it has been in the previous years Froome won. Of course he can lose, crashes, punctures, whatever.

But looking at his odds-over-time compare to the previous years, it's pretty much the same story this year.

Porte and Aru are the challengers, but all the stars need to align for them to have a chance

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

It's not just today though. Aru has been absolutely flying for the past six weeks. Today was just the latest chapter in his recent return to form. 20 seconds is a big amount on a climb as short as this; I think it's clear Aru was strongest.

I don't think 5th at the Dauphine provides solid evidence he was "the strongest" rather than among the strongest.16 to 20 seconds would be impressive if it was done optimal effort versus optimal effort. In fact there would be nothing to argue about. But all of that time was won in two periods when the chasing four weren't putting in an optimal effort. So all we are left with is people projecting their preexisting opinions onto inconclusive evidence. Which is, of course, a lot of what we do on a cycling forum.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Where did Fuglsang come ?

1"07 back

Thanks