TdF official thread: Stage 3 Marseille-Grand Motte (196.0km)

[Anonymous]

If you have ever been in a race or group ride with these type of winds, it takes one guy not holding the wheel and the next thing there is a gap. Per the tweets from the pros, LA was well positioned. The gap happened in seconds. You dont win 7 TDF by being stupid. No pressure on AC, Astana team has a lot of cards to play.

nah. it didnt... there was an awful lot of looking around and messing around before it opened properly... Wasnt just Contador that messed up, theres a fair few contenders who should have been much further forward.. especially, as you say, in those winds, they should know how easily a gap could open..

actually, more the question.. why the hell wernt some of the sprinters closer to the front... theres a few teams and riders wont be making that mistake again

 

[slcbiker]

This was good tactics by Astana. Rogers and Kirchen are unlikely to be true GC threats. Rogers doesn't climb well enough and Kirchen doesn't TT well enough to beat any of the top 4 Astana guys.
This basically means Astana gets to have one guy gain 40 secs over all the other serious contenders, and none of their other GC guys lose any time to any serious contenders. If I'm Brunyeel, I'll take that any day. And he probably would have taken it whether it was Levi or Kloden instead in that front break. I'm sure Brunyeel, like most managers, would prefer to deal with things that are under his control (like internal team dynamics) rather than external factors.
Saxo specifically, but probably other teams would have worked much harder if had been AC in that front break. Lance at this point is seen as less of a threat.

 

[Publicus]

lol.. they are down further to LA... they basically trail a GC threat a further 19 seconds then prior to the stage. Im not so sure they really fear LA all that much, so a tough day not really. Though I did see S-L pulling infront of the peleton, maybe a little energy wasted. However raobank never had a rider near the front.

Ok, good point. Maybe it's not that big of a deal from a time spent stand point. I think the fact that some many of the Astana boys are positioned near the top of the GC will make it harder on the other GC candidates, especially with the way the Astana leadership drama has played out in the press. Frankly I think it takes a bit of pressure off of Contador. I guess we'll have to wait and see how things play out tomorrow and Friday.

 

[dispencer]

what a great stage!
columbia-htc really showed who's boss of these early stages!

whether they meant to pull LA 40 seconds up the gc or not is debatable, but they certainly had no reason to sit up and let the groups come back together.

great win for cav, but i am a little sad Wiggins didn't make the split! i thought he had a real shot at yellow in the TTT!

 

[UTFan2]

why.. alberto had 5 riders with him.. Lance only took two...

as for lance should have alerted him, watch the 20k before the split.. Lance was up at the front with popovich the whole time keeping out of trouble, as was cancellara keeping out of trouble.. If contador hasnt got the brains to realise in the last 30-40k of a race you really need to be near the front, then hes in trouble tactically.. Lets not hope there is a crash mid pelaton, he could kiss his chances goodbye..

As for astana betting the farm, lance was in the right place at the right time, so was huchovd, cancellara, cavendish and everyone else.. Contador wasnt, along with a number of other GC contenders.. wonder why none of them was one lances wheel... Oh hang on.. one was.. Tony Martin.. Spot the brains...

I dont normally critisise peoples intelligence on here, but i do need to wonder if you know what youre on about..

I agree - had any of the outside-GCers been in the right place at the right time, they would have gone with the split. Notice I say outside-GCers. All of the main GCers are still together. I think LA has to be considered because he is LA and has won 7 times. But I doubt many think of him as a real threat, and that was apparent today.

I think in an effort to save entire team efforts for tomorrow, that many of the GC teams did not do a good job of keeping their GCers in the front. In all of the interviews with Col/HTC before the stage, they said they wanted to see others take their turn out front. NO other team did (they road near the front but did nothing to share the pace setting) and as George indicated...it pi$$ed them off so they TOOK off. Really, if Col/HTC gained 30-40 seconds on the rest of the field today, then if they lose 30 seconds tomorrow, what difference does it make?

I think this is great tactically for Astana. Having 4 in the top 10 is perfect. Let everyone think there is a "who is leader" cr@p going on, and really....this is JB, how could they not know that this is too early for him to want his GCer to have the yellow? If LA gets it tomorrow, that works to AC's advantage, too.

This does not hurt AC, but I do wonder about Evans and Sastre and Vande Valde.

 

[L29205]

19 seconds between LA and AC. 23sec to Kloden and 31 to Leipheimer. With a strong TTT tomorrow, some of the other teams could be shiiting bricks

Having heard some inside gossip from camp Astana, Contador may not be mature enougn to recognize how JB's tactics today help him. The GC teams that really lost are Silence-Lotto, Cervelo, and Rabobank. To a lesser extent Saxo, but they still have super-strongman Cancellera atop the standings. Astana played it perfectly, whereas Columbia may have hurt their GC aims by punishing the other sprinters teams for not helping bring back a break (see Hindcapie's interview).

Think who did the work today. Columbia obviously, but that means two back to back days of team time trialing. The teams that were caught out - Silence-Lotto and Cervelo did try and bring things back. But not Astana or Saxobank.

Tomorrow ought to be as interesting as today!

I would agree Astana sent up LA and Popo(as major riders that might impact the TTT), it was a good strategy in my opinion to see what the other team were thinking. They still have AC, Klodi, and Levi rested with the the majority of the field. With a good team ride all four in the top positions. I don't think the lack of chase by Astana had to do with AC being out of the picture. But it was fun to watch. And time gaps still real close.
L29205

 

[Carl0880]

I wouldn't read too much into this day. As I posted earlier, I just think it would have been counterproductive for Astana to chase down the break. It's a 3 week race.

I think people are jumping on this way too hard, and I agree with you Publicus. Johan is trying to balance a delegation of riders who think they should be the top dog. What he did today was the old Russian tradition. Each day let a cyclist in a break or cause a split, and just see how many cyclists they can stack in the Top 10. Out of the 4 contenders on the team, Lance was 4th. He got into a split, no other true gc hopefuls were in it, and it wasn't like it was going to gain minutes. So all he did was move his 4th guy in the standings higher up to give him another possibility to play with.

I am not sure though if Saxo can hang on to 40 seconds though. I don't think Columbia will have enough in the tank now to win the TTT tomorrow. I think that its a battle between Garmin and Astana, but i can be proven wrong. As far as Saxo, its a 33 km test, so they would only be able to lose a little over a second per km to lose the lead. Riis does have an excellent history in the TTT, but its not like they are loaded with good time-trialist. The previous tours they had the big engines of Cancellera, Zabriskie and Voight to go along with Basso who was a upper tier TT. Currently, the 2 GC hopefuls are the Schleck brothers, who are average TT at best. A Good portion of this TT will be on flatter roads, so Saxo will have to put a ton of the weight on Fabian and Jens to keep it close in my opinion.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Actually, the Lance critics were expecting this ^^

Correct. Well, it is exactly what I expected.

Contador has now come unstuck twice, this season in crosswinds, the first time being at Paris-Nice.

Seconds at stake today, minutes in the mountains. Onwards and upwards....

 

[Publicus]

Correct. Well, it is exactly what I expected.

Contador has now come unstuck twice, this season in crosswinds, the first time being at Paris-Nice.

Seconds at stake today, minutes in the mountains. Onwards and upwards....

Reading Lance's and Levi's twitters(? ****s?) it sounds like Lance just happened to be in the right place at the right time. No tactical plan by JB initially, though I suspect he gave the final order to go ahead once the break formed.

It was the second time, though I am surprised about Levi and Kloden getting caught out as well. Oh well, this is why I love the Tour. Everyday can upset the natural order of things.

 

[MonkeyKnifeFight]

why.. alberto had 5 riders with him.. Lance only took two...

as for lance should have alerted him, watch the 20k before the split.. Lance was up at the front with popovich the whole time keeping out of trouble, as was cancellara keeping out of trouble.. If contador hasnt got the brains to realise in the last 30-40k of a race you really need to be near the front, then hes in trouble tactically.. Lets not hope there is a crash mid pelaton, he could kiss his chances goodbye..

As for astana betting the farm, lance was in the right place at the right time, so was huchovd, cancellara, cavendish and everyone else.. Contador wasnt, along with a number of other GC contenders.. wonder why none of them was one lances wheel... Oh hang on.. one was.. Tony Martin.. Spot the brains...

I dont normally critisise peoples intelligence on here, but i do need to wonder if you know what youre on about..

This kitten has claws I guess. Does someone need a nap? If they were riding as a team and protecting their leader then they would have actually done so. No one actually knows what the "tactics" were (if any), or if LA did warn AC about a possible break, but we can only guage what happened by the result: LA put time into AC. US Postal et al always were near the front with all riders all the time to ensure such did not happen. One has to wonder why the change.

 

[Anonymous]

Reading Lance's and Levi's twitters(? ****s?) it sounds like Lance just happened to be in the right place at the right time. No tactical plan by JB initially, though I suspect he gave the final order to go ahead once the break formed.

It was the second time, though I am surprised about Levi and Kloden getting caught out as well. Oh well, this is why I love the Tour. Everyday can upset the natural order of things.

you can be sure thought that they got permissions from JB before popovich started doing any work though..

Contador coming unstuck.. that is why when people rave about him, im still not convinced.. talent is there, experience isnt.. too many mistakes still..

 

[Publicus]

you can be sure thought that they got permissions from JB before popovich started doing any work though..

Contador coming unstuck.. that is why when people rave about him, im still not convinced.. talent is there, experience isnt.. too many mistakes still..

Seems to me it wasn't an experience issue since all of the other experienced riders got caught out as well. I wouldn't read too much into this about AC.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Hehe, Skil won the teams day classification...

Nice answer to all those people wondering why Skil got invited.

 

[Carl0880]

I think the real story being missed here is the fact that none of the sprinter teams helpinf Columbia. I expect to see on the rest of the flat stages, Milram, Quickstep, etc to start putting riders in the break and maybe even see Boonen in a break. I think these teams are realizing that if they compete against Cavendish in a sprint, 90% they are going to lose. So why do they want to work with his team to bring a break back when he is just going to win. Don't be surprised if a couple of sprint stages turn out to be a breakaway winning.

 

[gjdavis60]

Reminded me of Stage 11 in 2007 when Vino and Astana attacked in the crosswinds and Moreau missed the break, losing over 3 minutes and his GC aspirations.

Crosswinds present a huge tactical opportunity and riders who do not pay attention do so at their own risk. The peloton was lucky today that the gap was not bigger. Still, I expect those 40 seconds could make a difference to more than a few riders before this year's tour is over.

 

[Parrot23]

Hehe, Skil won the teams day classification...

Nice answer to all those people wondering why Skil got invited.

+I take the point the other day about Dutch guys riding in the wind. Just what happened. Dangerous to Alberto: re Paris-Nice too. I remember how Disco caught out Mayo on the cobblestones one Tour: light climber...no way he was coming back.

Intra-team rivalries make the race in Astana the really interesting one so far.

 

[Anonymous]

nah. it didnt... there was an awful lot of looking around and messing around before it opened properly... Wasnt just Contador that messed up, theres a fair few contenders who should have been much further forward.. especially, as you say, in those winds, they should know how easily a gap could open..

actually, more the question.. why the hell wernt some of the sprinters closer to the front... theres a few teams and riders wont be making that mistake again

Sounds like from the interview with Hincape that it was that exact point than made them put the hammer down. They were pi$$ed to have to do the catch themselves, so they saw an opportunity with the wind to really turn the screws and they did. Good for them. Someone lost the wheel near the front of the peloton and gaped the next guy and it was all over. Happens on Saturday morning rides.....only this one was a bit more costly.

 

[Publicus]

+I take the point the other day about Dutch guys riding in the wind. Just what happened. Dangerous to Alberto: re Paris-Nice too. I remember how Disco caught out Mayo on the cobblestones one Tour: light climber...no way he was coming back.

Intra-team rivalries make the race in Astana the really interesting one so far.

It really is all about Astana this year. I think Riis and Saxo Bank are going to continue to thwart their plan to dominate, but as for now, the story line is all about the perceived (real) drama emanating from Team Astana.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Big winner today was Linus. How did Contador & the Shlecks let him go ? Made up all his time from stage 1. Good result. Lance was right..... Contador has a lot to learn. He can't read a race outside the mountains.

 

[procycler]

seems to me that JB is personal tactician these days, lost all respect for him and LA. Conta got a raw deal.. well it was not a suprise, sadly. I sincerely hope they plan themselves out of competition. No more Astana or JB teams for me anymore. Hopefully AC gets a team that respects him nxt season.

Our manouvering brothers in arms are losing lot of followers in twitter....
LA has to act dirty hence not being able to compete propely, explains a lot.

I was a huge LA fan before today.

 

[39*23t]

good ride for little sammie d after being out front all day still hanged on to finish with the lead group

 

[richwagmn]

So if Astana takes the TTT tomorrow and gains enough time, LA gets yellow. Should be interesting seeing Hinault zip up LA's yellow jersey...

If LA goes yellow, does Astana start defending right now? Does Contador attack LA in the Pyrenees? Stay tuned...

 

[runninboy]

Hehe, Skil won the teams day classification...

Nice answer to all those people wondering why Skil got invited.

Also nice that De Kort ended up in 20th since he was in the break and then went solo before the catch, shows he has some real guts

 

[Sophistic]

If Armstrong is not Astanas #1, then their two guys should have saved the energy for tomorrow instead of helping Armstrong to gain some seconds.
It also depends on if you consider Cancellara, Martin, Rogers or Kirchen a threat, you might say "ah Contador is gonna blow them away in the mountains, who cares" but who knows, 2 of the 3 mountain finishes are not that steep or long and Contador might have a bad day and need every second in the end(and don't forget the TT in Annecy where Contador could still lose some signifcant time despite his improved skills at the discipline).
If Saxo-Bank manages a strong showing tomorrow, Cancellara is in a very good position for the overall classment, i really don't see him losing minutes at stage 7 and 15, his total watt power seems so high these days that even with 78-80kg he shouldn't get blown away on a 7% climb.

 

[39*23t]

seems to me that JB is personal tactician these days, lost all respect for him and LA. Conta got a raw deal.. well it was not a suprise, sadly. I sincerely hope they plan themselves out of competition. No more Astana or JB teams for me anymore. Hopefully AC gets a team that respects him nxt season.

Our manouvering brothers in arms are losing lot of followers in twitter....
LA has to act dirty hence not being able to compete propely, explains a lot.

I was a huge LA fan before today.

why do you think garmin were at the front ac's (new) team were working for him after all