Team Astana's shameful legacy

[fmk_RoI]

If only Vino invested like JV in an internal testing program to keep his riders from testing positive.

It was put in place by Biver back in 2007 and modified since. Clearly it didn't work in 2007. And clearly it hasn't worked in 2014. Nor did it work with Contador or Kreuziger. But it did catch Gusev. Although CAS then made Astana uncatch him.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If any Kazakh riders are reading this and feeling like they might be comming up with a doping positive any day now:

Contact CIRC. If you give them enough information they can keep your positive secret and you get no ban. Then maybe you can get a contract with continental team Vino4Ever. But you must contact CIRC prior to getting the message that you have tested positive, or you wont get the sweet deal.

The UCI even has a toll-free number to report doping. It has positively contributed to the cleanest peloton ever.

Be cleans! Just do it well off the WT.

 

[The Hitch]

People who believe in the new generation already find Nibali suspicious. Walsh has made hints on twitter that he is not sure. So Nibali going down in flames wouldnt change anything for them. It would just confirm their suspicious that the sport still has some rotten apples, but nevertheless their favourite rider is cleans.

Trust me, there is very little that Brailsfraud etc want less than for the guy who won the Tour the year after Brailsfraud proved cycling was clean, to be outed as a doper.

A- cycling was clean for 2 years then it became dirty again, argument is a lot more difficult to make than claiming there was a point when everyone decided to stop doping.

 

[The Hitch]

That was damn amazing though. The whole thing organized around the home triumph, then the loss of control of the race due to small team sizes - was it 3 Spaniards & 4 Swiss who got in the break or vice versa? Then Vino of all people wins right in front of Pat McQuaid. It was beautiful.

Far better race and far more memorable occasion than if Cavendish had won like the UCI clearly wanted.

I expect some kind of "deal" type thing, like happened to McLaren F1 when Ron Dennis "stepped down", then there was the cheating scandal with Hamilton lying to race stewards, then Dennis "officially left his post". Astana aren't the problem for the UCI, cycling in emerging and profitable markets is a good thing. Alexander Vinokourov is the problem for them. As long as he is there, they cannot spin anything the team does as a victory for clean cycling. People like Riis are ingrained, their doping is now long ago. It can be swept under the carpet as "everybody in their generation did it, but it's clean now". Vino is of the generation that was supposed to have been clean but whose ban is still far too recent in the memory for them to be able to justify ignoring it in the same way as Riis. Lots of new fans to the sport will think of Riis as a team owner/director first and only hear of his (doped) TdF exploits after. Vino is another thing.

If a Cavendish win was what the organizers wanted the course wouldn't have been changed back in 09 to include 9 laps of Box Hill, from what had been a bunch of laps around pan flat hyde park.

 

[BeagRigh]

Agree with LS and Hitch (amongst others) UCI withdrawng Astana's license is bad for business when Nibali is the reigning tour champ. much more likely they are going to ask for a few strategic resignations. Vino would be ideal for them but I'm not sure Astana would continue without him...

Whatever happens I can see the "Italian part" of Astana trying to put some distance between itself and the Kazakh management.

Interesting times.

 

[BeagRigh]

The only thing that could happen to deny the UCI their goal of ejecting Astana would be the realisation that the rules don't provide for punishing the teams for the crimes of the riders.

Now might be a good time to re-read the CAS decisions on Phonak and Katusha.

Good post.

Another reason I think the some "resignations" will be the solution.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Agree with LS and Hitch (amongst others) UCI withdrawng Astana's license is bad for business when Nibali is the reigning tour champ. much more likely they are going to ask for a few strategic resignations. Vino would be ideal for them but I'm not sure Astana would continue without him...

Whatever happens I can see the "Italian part" of Astana trying to put some distance between itself and the Kazakh management.

Interesting times.

Or, miraculously, Alonso's team materializes with riders from Astana the UCI likes. Alternately, the UCI may have another team waiting for Astana's spot.

fmk_RoI, IMO, they make some rules fit. They have a long history of doing just that.

 

[fmk_RoI]

fmk_RoI, IMO, they make some rules fit. They have a long history of doing just that.

CAS make the ultimate decision.

 

[D-Queued]

The UCI even has a toll-free number to report doping. It has positively contributed to the cleanest peloton ever.

Be cleans! Just do it well off the WT.

Ha ha. I had forgotten about Phat's final solution.

I'll wager $0.25 that its disconnected and was never used. There is no mention of it on the home page, or on the Clean Sport page.

Dave.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I'll wager $0.25 that its disconnected and was never used. There is no mention of it on the home page, or on the Clean Sport page.

Cookson only promised to keep it "for the time being" as it was effectively superseded by CIRC

Cyclingnews: Just to go back one step, will this email account merge with the current UC anti-doping hotline?

Cookson: Well the UCI hotline will stay open for the time being. I don’t think it’s been a particularly effective mode of contacting people. We’ll keep it for the time being but really it is more or less redundant now that the commission is in place.

source

 

[D-Queued]

Cookson only promised to keep it "for the time being" as it was effectively superseded by CIRC



source

Give him some kudos for being politically correct.

The stuff between the lines screams, "This was a really stupid whitewash, but there will be plenty more opportunities to criticize McQuaid's handling of anti-doping and we will just let this one die of its own accord."

Dave.

 

[Tonton]

When granting a license to Astana, was the UCI thinking that Mr. win-at-all-cost Vino would run a clean team? One more reason not to let ex-dopers be part of cycling. And BTW, if anyone had any doubts about Nibali's Bahamontesque performance at last year's TdF, I think it's pretty clear now he was doped.

 

[Benotti69]

When granting a license to Astana, was the UCI thinking that Mr. win-at-all-cost Vino would run a clean team? One more reason not to let ex-dopers be part of cycling. And BTW, if anyone had any doubts about Nibali's Bahamontesque performance at last year's TdF, I think it's pretty clear now he was doped.

When UCI granted a licence to Slipstream did they consider JVs past, Riis, and all the other dirty teams in the sport?

Why are Astana any different to the rest?

 

[pastronef]

When UCI granted a licence to Slipstream did they consider JVs past, Riis, and all the other dirty teams in the sport?

Why are Astana any different to the rest?

hi, UCI should not grant a license to ANY team. they should stop for 5 years, from allievi (cadets) to Pro.

just the juniors racing before the stop will be allowed back when the racing resumes in 2020 and no owners, DS, masseurs, former riders will be allowed back.

that's the only solution.

however it is impossible to do.

I ask you, is it worth following the sport, and why?
why do we see neopros having pictures with Merckx, why, let's say, the great Miguel is still an example for many racers?

Benotti, I do not see any way out.

 

[Race Radio]

Astana could miss the first month of the season
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/10/u...as-third-rider-linked-to-team-tests-positive/

 

[Tonton]

When UCI granted a licence to Slipstream did they consider JVs past, Riis, and all the other dirty teams in the sport?

Why are Astana any different to the rest?

I stayed on subject: Astana. You know that I have made that point with regards to Riis as well on more than one occasion.

 

[Hugh Januss]

When granting a license to Astana, was the UCI thinking that Mr. win-at-all-cost Vino would run a clean team? One more reason not to let ex-dopers be part of cycling. And BTW, if anyone had any doubts about Nibali's Bahamontesque performance at last year's TdF, I think it's pretty clear now he was doped.

If they excluded all teams run by ex-dopers the Pro Tour would not exist.

 

[pigoonse]

Well, its not a clean up process, if it was UCI would have popped Nibali, Froome and Contador over the weekend.

This.

How can any discerning fan trust the UCI with their selective, timely, and biased singling out of who gets punished? (thinking of Roman Kreuziger prior to TdF, etc)

 

[trevim]

Astana could miss the first month of the season
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/10/u...as-third-rider-linked-to-team-tests-positive/

Maybe doping isn't that bad then, it gives a good excuse to miss out on the pointless WT races Beijing and Down Under.

 

[Benotti69]

hi, UCI should not grant a license to ANY team. they should stop for 5 years, from allievi (cadets) to Pro.

just the juniors racing before the stop will be allowed back when the racing resumes in 2020 and no owners, DS, masseurs, former riders will be allowed back.

that's the only solution.

however it is impossible to do.

I ask you, is it worth following the sport, and why?
why do we see neopros having pictures with Merckx, why, let's say, the great Miguel is still an example for many racers?

Benotti, I do not see any way out.

I dont see a way out at present. i dont post in the road race sections due to not following any one rider or willing to discuss the sport while ignoring the doping.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Even if you throw out the whole World Tour, you just end up with "amateur" cycling that isn't really amateur, with riders who have those "front" jobs with the military, customs office, prison service etc. (like you already see occasionally in women's cycling with the likes of Guderzo and Bastianelli). And then you're left with "amateur" cycling like it was in the old Eastern Bloc. And you'd be hard pushed to find anybody who'd believe later known dopers like Ugrumov and Uwe Ampler hadn't touched the stuff while racing for the Soviets and the DDR.

 

[pastronef]

I dont see a way out at present. i dont post in the road race sections due to not following any one rider or willing to discuss the sport while ignoring the doping.

cazzo, that is not fun at all. don't know...

 

[nhowson]

Believe it or not I still don't believe Nibali has been doping. I think Astana believe they can get away with the support team and the young riders being given a helping hand, but with Nibali's steady increase throughout his career it doesn't look to suspicious in my opinion. He was imperious in the Giro '13 with a similar level of competition to the Tour but no one said much then.

 

[blackcat]

Even if you throw out the whole World Tour, you just end up with "amateur" cycling that isn't really amateur, with riders who have those "front" jobs with the military, customs office, prison service etc. (like you already see occasionally in women's cycling with the likes of Guderzo and Bastianelli). And then you're left with "amateur" cycling like it was in the old Eastern Bloc. And you'd be hard pushed to find anybody who'd believe later known dopers like Ugrumov and Uwe Ampler hadn't touched the stuff while racing for the Soviets and the DDR.

Peace Tour.

Gazprom would sponsor, Popo would be team leader, and Viktor Yushchenko would be patron.

Lance would fly the Oakley owner Jim Jannard's jet alliteration MH17

 

[blackcat]

Believe it or not I still don't believe Nibali has been doping. I think Astana believe they can get away with the support team and the young riders being given a helping hand, but with Nibali's steady increase throughout his career it doesn't look to suspicious in my opinion. He was imperious in the Giro '13 with a similar level of competition to the Tour but no one said much then.