Team Ineos Discussion thread

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Apr 22, 2012
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Nick C. said:
I thought Kwiatkowski won the world's two years ago and E3 this spring. He may not be suited to domestique duties.
he should explore his GT potential at Vuelta, so...
 
Re:

yaco said:
Kwiatkovski must have a limited future if he can't finish a GT,let alone a one week stage race - Has he finished a stage race in 2016?
Crazy that the decision to leave him out of the Tour team was criticised by so many. He wouldn't really have deserved a place in the Vuelta team if it wasn't for injuries/illness affecting other members of the team.

His form since winning Amstel Gold last year has been incredibly inconsistent (and aside from a couple of days, largely awful).
 
Still 8th at the WC, 2nd in the TTT. Decent P-N, P-V and Algarve. not terrible, not good either.

2014 and 2013 were very promising though. He should focus on Ardennes and one week races, he lacks a little bit of everything to really shine in GT's. Nothing much he can do about backpain. He was a more exciting rider at Etixx, I don't like to see him slaving for others.

Kwiato does have a rather cool palmares for a 26yr old, worlds, Strade, E3, AGR,...
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
 
Re:

Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
 
Apr 22, 2012
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PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
What proves he is selfish?

Btw. what you wrote is wrong. You can leave there all is needed for your leader and still remain high in the GC. Look at Froome when he was riding for Wiggo or Porte for Froome. And there are other examples.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
What proves he is selfish?

Btw. what you wrote is wrong. You can leave there all is needed for your leader and still remain high in the GC. Look at Froome when he was riding for Wiggo or Porte for Froome. And there are other examples.
Froome was stronger than Wiggins. Porte on the other hand completely flopped in GC after those one day efforts, showing that he went into the red.

Anyway more importantly, when Froome was doing his yo-yo today, why the hell was Konig riding in the front group and letting his team leader eat wind (yea it's a steep climb but marginal gains and all that)
 
Aug 27, 2016
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Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
What proves he is selfish?

Btw. what you wrote is wrong. You can leave there all is needed for your leader and still remain high in the GC. Look at Froome when he was riding for Wiggo or Porte for Froome. And there are other examples.
Froome was stronger than Wiggins. Porte on the other hand completely flopped in GC after those one day efforts, showing that he went into the red.

Anyway more importantly, when Froome was doing his yo-yo today, why the hell was Konig riding in the front group and letting his team leader eat wind (yea it's a steep climb but marginal gains and all that)
Kennaugh (No24) was riding in the front group, Konig (No26) was with Froome (or behind him). IMHO Konig is not a very good domestique, but solid work today.
 
Re: Re:

Elkantar said:
PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
What proves he is selfish?

Btw. what you wrote is wrong. You can leave there all is needed for your leader and still remain high in the GC. Look at Froome when he was riding for Wiggo or Porte for Froome. And there are other examples.
Froome was stronger than Wiggins. Porte on the other hand completely flopped in GC after those one day efforts, showing that he went into the red.

Anyway more importantly, when Froome was doing his yo-yo today, why the hell was Konig riding in the front group and letting his team leader eat wind (yea it's a steep climb but marginal gains and all that)
Kennaugh (No24) was riding in the front group, Konig (No26) was with Froome (or behind him). IMHO Konig is not a very good domestique, but solid work today.
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
 
Aug 27, 2016
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HelloDolly said:
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
Lopez, Puccio - very good work
But Kennaugh has left his leader at the key moment (first part of "Froome's yo-yo"), riding for himself in the front group. IMHO Poels or Thomas would behave differently.
 
Re: Re:

Elkantar said:
HelloDolly said:
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
Lopez, Puccio - very good work
But Kennaugh has left his leader at the key moment (first part of "Froome's yo-yo"), riding for himself in the front group. IMHO Poels or Thomas would behave differently.
Absolutely no doubt about it. This is what I don't get about Sky. They often put out a reasonable Giro team even though they rarely have a genuine contender for the GC. They put out a very strong Tour team. But for the Vuelta they just throw together whatever's left. If Froome ever hopes to do a Tour-Vuelta double at some point in his career, he should spread the quality of the Tour team out for the Vuelta. Have Poels at one, Henao at the other. Nieve at one, Landa at the other. Thomas at one, Kiryienka at the other. Stannard at one, Rowe at the other. Etc. With a stronger team he wouldn't have to yo-yo. The yo-yo limits losses, or at best gains a small amount, which is why it's a Plan B for when he is weak, has a weak team, or both. If he lucks out one year and his Vuelta rivals are Rolland, Pozzovivo, Amador, van Garderen and Fuglsang then maybe he can win with a weak team and the yo-yo, but it's far from his optimal strategy.
 
Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

There is nothing wrong with Kennaugh stretching his legs but so far I'm not impressed.Hopefully tomorrow he'll be better if Froome will need help.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
PremierAndrew said:
Kokoso said:
Still anyone says König is not willing to help his leader? He was the one who delivered Froome to the front, while Kennaugh was riding at front.
Doesn't prove much. If you've completely spent yourself for your team leader, you don't have enough energy to remain top 5 GC. Wasn't a lot more he could do today either, but doesn't mean this proves he isn't selfish
What proves he is selfish?

Btw. what you wrote is wrong. You can leave there all is needed for your leader and still remain high in the GC. Look at Froome when he was riding for Wiggo or Porte for Froome. And there are other examples.
Froome was stronger than Wiggins. Porte on the other hand completely flopped in GC after those one day efforts, showing that he went into the red.

Anyway more importantly, when Froome was doing his yo-yo today, why the hell was Konig riding in the front group and letting his team leader eat wind (yea it's a steep climb but marginal gains and all that)
You have it all wrong. Kennaugh was the guy in front group while König pulled Froome into the front group, so...

And the answer on what proves he is selfish? No answer. Just hate.
 
Re: Re:

TMP402 said:
Elkantar said:
HelloDolly said:
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
Lopez, Puccio - very good work
But Kennaugh has left his leader at the key moment (first part of "Froome's yo-yo"), riding for himself in the front group. IMHO Poels or Thomas would behave differently.
Absolutely no doubt about it. This is what I don't get about Sky. They often put out a reasonable Giro team even though they rarely have a genuine contender for the GC. They put out a very strong Tour team. But for the Vuelta they just throw together whatever's left. If Froome ever hopes to do a Tour-Vuelta double at some point in his career, he should spread the quality of the Tour team out for the Vuelta. Have Poels at one, Henao at the other. Nieve at one, Landa at the other. Thomas at one, Kiryienka at the other. Stannard at one, Rowe at the other. Etc. With a stronger team he wouldn't have to yo-yo. The yo-yo limits losses, or at best gains a small amount, which is why it's a Plan B for when he is weak, has a weak team, or both. If he lucks out one year and his Vuelta rivals are Rolland, Pozzovivo, Amador, van Garderen and Fuglsang then maybe he can win with a weak team and the yo-yo, but it's far from his optimal strategy.
Suspect Henao was supposed to race but the crash at the Olympics took him out, Poels and G might not have had the form .
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
Another one who cant recognize number 24 and number 26. Go to see doctor, man :) Yeah, no work, just pulling Froome uphill while Kennaugh was riding on his own in the front group.
 
I don;t need glasses ...Kennaugh was sent up the road as part of the SKY tactics...maybe you Kokoso should know something about tactics. Konig is quite clearly the strongest SKY climbing dom and if he doesn;t pace Froome then that there shows he is not working for his leader

Anyway all on here if Froomeis such a great climber can't he do his own thing ...after all on steep climbs like yesterday and tomorrow a dom is only needed if Froome is dropped and needs pacing

Most riders in the Vuelta do not use trains and if Froome is the rider everyone goes on about it he should be able to it himself for a change
 
Re: Re:

MatParker117 said:
TMP402 said:
Elkantar said:
HelloDolly said:
What work ...Konig did no work whatsoever today ...Kennaugh, Lopez . Puccio ,etc but not Konig

Anyway doesn't matter he is out of SKY anyway and going for his own results
Lopez, Puccio - very good work
But Kennaugh has left his leader at the key moment (first part of "Froome's yo-yo"), riding for himself in the front group. IMHO Poels or Thomas would behave differently.
Absolutely no doubt about it. This is what I don't get about Sky. They often put out a reasonable Giro team even though they rarely have a genuine contender for the GC. They put out a very strong Tour team. But for the Vuelta they just throw together whatever's left. If Froome ever hopes to do a Tour-Vuelta double at some point in his career, he should spread the quality of the Tour team out for the Vuelta. Have Poels at one, Henao at the other. Nieve at one, Landa at the other. Thomas at one, Kiryienka at the other. Stannard at one, Rowe at the other. Etc. With a stronger team he wouldn't have to yo-yo. The yo-yo limits losses, or at best gains a small amount, which is why it's a Plan B for when he is weak, has a weak team, or both. If he lucks out one year and his Vuelta rivals are Rolland, Pozzovivo, Amador, van Garderen and Fuglsang then maybe he can win with a weak team and the yo-yo, but it's far from his optimal strategy.
Suspect Henao was supposed to race but the crash at the Olympics took him out, Poels and G might not have had the form .
Well, Poels was provisionaly selected to Poitou Charentes (which he didn't start, his next race is Tour of Britain), so I guess he didn't consider the Vuelta. Maybe a schedule like last year with Britain, Italian classics and Abu Dhabi.

On the other hand, in the beginning of the year I think that Seb Henao was only scheduled to the Vuelta, I have no idea why he isn't in Spain right now.
 

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