Team Ineos Discussion thread

[bigcog]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Not great today! :lol: We won't be seeing many (probably none) of these riders in the 2017 Tour team. I'm not sure Kennaugh and Lopez going on that big breakaway a few days ago was a great idea but then again Lopez was the strongest helper today. I think they already showed their relative weakness yesterday given that Moreno and two Movistar riders got in the break. Basically they've gone head to head with Movistar and come up well short. I haven't seen the first few km's of today's stage when the break was established so I don't know really how much you can fault Froome or the team. Froome (or Konig) should have been more attentive but maybe his legs were bad at the start? It was obvious on the final climb that he wasn't on a good day.

A pity there was so many problems with the team's best riders before the race. Even without the Tour domestiques, fresh riders like Roche and Intxausti would have been a big help.

I haven't seen the start but someone said Froome was 11 seconds back from the break at one point, so he should have attempted to bridge, probably easier said than done but still. Sounds like he thought it would come back together or his team would appear, well he got that wrong and paid the price.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Not great today! :lol: We won't be seeing many (probably none) of these riders in the 2017 Tour team. I'm not sure Kennaugh and Lopez going on that big breakaway a few days ago was a great idea but then again Lopez was the strongest helper today. I think they already showed their relative weakness yesterday given that Moreno and two Movistar riders got in the break. Basically they've gone head to head with Movistar and come up well short. I haven't seen the first few km's of today's stage when the break was established so I don't know really how much you can fault Froome or the team. Froome (or Konig) should have been more attentive but maybe his legs were bad at the start? It was obvious on the final climb that he wasn't on a good day.

A pity there was so many problems with the team's best riders before the race. Even without the Tour domestiques, fresh riders like Roche and Intxausti would have been a big help.

Yeah I think this was the planned Vuelta team pre TDF:

Froome, Konig, Landa, Kwaitkowski, Roche, Kennaugh, Intxausti, Knees, Puccio

 

[sir fly]

What's Sky's management line-up in Vuelta?

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Too many guys half asleep when it all kicked off today. Froome is still somehow 2nd on GC when it could have been a lot worse. However Konig has completely messed up a chance of a top 5, possibly even a podium.

Yup, I've just watched the highlights and it was far more to do with being asleep than bad legs. If Froome is going to sit towards the back of the peloton then at least Konig should be at the front. Very poor from Sky. Dare I say it but I don't think that's a mistake Froome would make at the Tour and perhaps not being in the leader's jersey caused him to relax a bit.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Not great today! :lol: We won't be seeing many (probably none) of these riders in the 2017 Tour team. I'm not sure Kennaugh and Lopez going on that big breakaway a few days ago was a great idea but then again Lopez was the strongest helper today. I think they already showed their relative weakness yesterday given that Moreno and two Movistar riders got in the break. Basically they've gone head to head with Movistar and come up well short. I haven't seen the first few km's of today's stage when the break was established so I don't know really how much you can fault Froome or the team. Froome (or Konig) should have been more attentive but maybe his legs were bad at the start? It was obvious on the final climb that he wasn't on a good day.

A pity there was so many problems with the team's best riders before the race. Even without the Tour domestiques, fresh riders like Roche and Intxausti would have been a big help.

I haven't seen the start but someone said Froome was 11 seconds back from the break at one point, so he should have attempted to bridge, probably easier said than done but still. Sounds like he thought it would come back together or his team would appear, well he got that wrong and paid the price.

I actually think it would have been better to sit up at that point (when the gap was 11 seconds) and wait for the rest of his teammates because Lopez and Puccio were always going to struggle to close it by themselves.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

What's Sky's management line-up in Vuelta?

Dario Cioni is the DS.

 

[liamito]

Re: Re:

What's Sky's management line-up in Vuelta?

Dario Cioni is the DS.

Also Rasch.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

What's Sky's management line-up in Vuelta?

Dario Cioni is the DS.

I wouldn't say today's oversight is exclusively his fault, but there clearly was some noise in their communication channels. Either during the stage or in briefings leading to it.
They weren't properly prepared.

 

[seldon71]

The pace was raised from the gun and there were immediate splits. I think König never made ANY of the front groups. Froome made it in pointy end momentarily, but only through a heavy personal effort (and this was no more than 5 kms to the race).

Yes, probably it was a mistake to make Lopez/Puccio to try and cut the deficit in duo (with little/some help from OGE). The 3rd group wasn't that far back and a combined effort after a little wait would probably have been more effective. But all dom's appeared to have tired legs. Kennaugh/Golas/Bosweel/Knees were working in quartet yet dropping time FAST to especially Contador's group but even to Puccio/Lopez -tandem.

Froome's tactical nous seemed pretty shaky. As soon as unexpected(was it really unexcpected???) attack went away, he was mainly concentrating in radio, not riding.

 

[PremierAndrew]

For all the discussion of the team's shortcomings today, none of this would have happened if Froome was on Quintana's wheel. He has to take a large chunk of the responsibility. Anyway, it's a learning experience for next year's Tour probably

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

Too many guys half asleep when it all kicked off today. Froome is still somehow 2nd on GC when it could have been a lot worse. However Konig has completely messed up a chance of a top 5, possibly even a podium.

Yup, I've just watched the highlights and it was far more to do with being asleep than bad legs. If Froome is going to sit towards the back of the peloton then at least Konig should be at the front. Very poor from Sky. Dare I say it but I don't think that's a mistake Froome would make at the Tour and perhaps not being in the leader's jersey caused him to relax a bit.

I agree, when you've got guys 2nd and 5th on GC with potential to be 1st and 3rd you must keep strong team mates near then front, a very bad mistake today and they deserved to be punished.

With so many of them sitting up and coasting I expect to see them working hard during the final week to ensure Froome at least finishes 2nd.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Too many guys half asleep when it all kicked off today. Froome is still somehow 2nd on GC when it could have been a lot worse. However Konig has completely messed up a chance of a top 5, possibly even a podium.

Yup, I've just watched the highlights and it was far more to do with being asleep than bad legs. If Froome is going to sit towards the back of the peloton then at least Konig should be at the front. Very poor from Sky. Dare I say it but I don't think that's a mistake Froome would make at the Tour and perhaps not being in the leader's jersey caused him to relax a bit.

I agree, when you've got guys 2nd and 5th on GC with potential to be 1st and 3rd you must keep strong team mates near then front, a very bad mistake today and they deserved to be punished.

With so many of them sitting up and coasting I expect to see them working hard during the final week to ensure Froome at least finishes 2nd.

I wouldn't count on it, think this is a big psychological blow.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't count on it, think this is a big psychological blow.

It's a blow no question, but Froome is still 2nd and its not as big a blow to the team as him crashing out for example, im sure a few of them who have contracts with Sky next year will be keen to repay Froome.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't count on it, think this is a big psychological blow.

It's a blow no question, but Froome is still 2nd and its not as big a blow to the team as him crashing out for example, im sure a few of them who have contracts with Sky next year will be keen to repay Froome.

Not one of the SKY team at the Vuelta has a confirmed contrat with SKY next year (except Froome & Kwaito)....maybe part of it ??

 

[lartiste]

I do not remember team with GC contenders sleeping like Sky today ... .

Imagine this would happen to Postal, then Lance would personal kick the ass of every dom

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't count on it, think this is a big psychological blow.

It's a blow no question, but Froome is still 2nd and its not as big a blow to the team as him crashing out for example, im sure a few of them who have contracts with Sky next year will be keen to repay Froome.

Not one of the SKY team at the Vuelta has a confirmed contrat with SKY next year (except Froome & Kwaito)....maybe part of it ??

Boswell has too, and im sure there are a few of them that want a deal or have been offered one.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

For all the discussion of the team's shortcomings today, none of this would have happened if Froome was on Quintana's wheel. He has to take a large chunk of the responsibility. Anyway, it's a learning experience for next year's Tour probably

There was a crash on the first descent which apparently Froome and Chaves were caught behind:

"It wasn't the best day for us. Chris lost time to Quintana, Contador and Chaves but gained time on Simon Yates. For sure it was a day where Movistar and Tinkoff raced really aggressive and they did a really good job putting their leaders on the front. We were caught on the back foot and it was too bad that Chris was separated by an early crash from Quintana and Contador. If he'd have been with them and not in the chasing group then it would have probably made things different.''

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

I do not remember team with GC contenders sleeping like Sky today ... .

Imagine this would happen to Postal, then Lance would personal kick the *** of every dom

Lance never had the balls to try a GT double. Well, I guess they got rid of one so can't blame him too much

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

For all the discussion of the team's shortcomings today, none of this would have happened if Froome was on Quintana's wheel. He has to take a large chunk of the responsibility. Anyway, it's a learning experience for next year's Tour probably

There was a crash on the first descent which apparently Froome and Chaves were caught behind:

"It wasn't the best day for us. Chris lost time to Quintana, Contador and Chaves but gained time on Simon Yates. For sure it was a day where Movistar and Tinkoff raced really aggressive and they did a really good job putting their leaders on the front. We were caught on the back foot and it was too bad that Chris was separated by an early crash from Quintana and Contador. If he'd have been with them and not in the chasing group then it would have probably made things different.''

That's put a different light on it to some extent, if that's why Froome was separated from the front group.

 

[hazaran]

I rewatched the footage and it's pretty clear. You never see the crash itself but there is a large gap (10s) splitting the peloton pretty evenly at 112.9km on the first descent. Froome goes to the front with one more Sky helper and Chaves in his wheel and they sprint across to the first group (sprint at 112.4 km). He regains contact at 112.2km, and just a moment later Contador attacks out of the group.

So yeah, he didn't make the group because he was still at the back (moving up takes time and power) and he just did a sprint to get across the first gap.

 

[Savant12]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Crash or no crash it was still an epic fail from the team. 2 guys in a break that was pointless then spending all day chasing only to be cooked for this stage.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

The pace was raised from the gun and there were immediate splits. I think König never made ANY of the front groups. Froome made it in pointy end momentarily, but only through a heavy personal effort (and this was no more than 5 kms to the race).

Yes, probably it was a mistake to make Lopez/Puccio to try and cut the deficit in duo (with little/some help from OGE). The 3rd group wasn't that far back and a combined effort after a little wait would probably have been more effective. But all dom's appeared to have tired legs. Kennaugh/Golas/Bosweel/Knees were working in quartet yet dropping time FAST to especially Contador's group but even to Puccio/Lopez -tandem.

Froome's tactical nous seemed pretty shaky. As soon as unexpected(was it really unexcpected???) attack went away, he was mainly concentrating in radio, not riding.

He was asking on the radio how far behind his teammates were. Again, perfectly normal but when it's Froome a huge deal is made of it.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

For all the discussion of the team's shortcomings today, none of this would have happened if Froome was on Quintana's wheel. He has to take a large chunk of the responsibility. Anyway, it's a learning experience for next year's Tour probably

Yeah I agree. The crash that caused the split was unfortunate but you can argue he should have been in front of it anyway on Quintana's wheel. He made the big effort to bridge on the climb and probably wanted to save some energy by starting the descent towards the back of that front group. Still, it all comes back to being too far down in the peloton in those first few km's. It's not really a learning experience as he's experienced enough to know where he should be. Just a bit of complacency and I guess it's understandable after winning the Tour. Most riders in his shoes wouldn't even be at the Vuelta!

 

[JRanton]

Re:

I do not remember team with GC contenders sleeping like Sky today ... .

Imagine this would happen to Postal, then Lance would personal kick the *** of every dom

As much as it was a bad error by Froome and Sky you have to point out that Orica (3rd and 4th on GC) also missed it together with 8 out of the top 10 on GC. The crash was very decisive.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't count on it, think this is a big psychological blow.

It's a blow no question, but Froome is still 2nd and its not as big a blow to the team as him crashing out for example, im sure a few of them who have contracts with Sky next year will be keen to repay Froome.

Not one of the SKY team at the Vuelta has a confirmed contrat with SKY next year (except Froome & Kwaito)....maybe part of it ??

Actually I'm pretty sure all of the riders except Konig have contracts with Sky next year. Boswell, Kennaugh, Kwiato, Golas and Knees already had contracts for 2017 and it's been all but confirmed that Lopez and Puccio have signed extensions.