Team Ineos Discussion thread

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Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
kingjr said:
Jolene said:
Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.
He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.
Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?
No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.
That is surely the definition of a racist

Using soemone's race against them ...to belittle them
For me you are only a racist if you mean what you say. You don't have to be a racist to understand that using a racist slur is hurtful.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Yes it's not great behavior, but to me it's important that Moscow has apologized to reza and admitted he was wrong. That for me is enough, he's still young and will learn but giving him a big punishment such as losing a contract would be way over the top. Maybe if cycling wants to really combat racism it should follow fifas leads with all the ads and banners, that seems to have worked
 
Re: Re:

kingjr said:
Jolene said:
Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.
He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.
Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?
No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.
Hypothetical: We're playing basketball and I'm just busting you up, scoring at will, blocking your shots, stealing the ball from you and you decide that calling me a racist slur is an effective means to stem the tide of your humiliation?
 
Re: Re:

Angliru said:
kingjr said:
Jolene said:
Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.
He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.
Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?
No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.
Hypothetical: We're playing basketball and I'm just busting you up, scoring at will, blocking your shots, stealing the ball from you and you decide that calling me a racist slur is an effective means to stem the tide of your humiliation?
If it pisses you off, it does what it's supposed to. Maybe it makes you angry enough to hit me, giving me an excuse to hit you back.

@Zinoviev

It doesn't. It makes you an champion though, I'll give you that.
 
@kingjr I will advise that you should just take your butt whoopin' like a man rather than lowering yourself or maybe this is your standard level as you seem to think it is acceptable behavior. Very revealing.
 
Re: Re:

kingjr said:
Jolene said:
Red Rick said:
Brullnux said:
I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.
He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.
Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?
No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.
Isn't the main thing though the effect on the victim, not the motivation of the abuser? If you've grown up regularly being insulted, discrimnated against and being defined by your race, does it really matter if the racist abuse comes from a hateful racist or from someone just looking to get under your skin?

It's probably going to have the same effect on your mindset, cause the same stress, change how comfortable you feel doing your job in the peloton, maybe even make you consider if you want to keep on riding in such an environment. Regardless of the motivation, racist abuse isn't just 'getting under someone's skin'; because its an insult with its roots in centuries of slavery, repression, limited opportunities and general discrimination which is still present in society today. And using that kind of abuse, re-inforces and maintains these divisions and differences, which most in society are seeking to destroy.

Which is why it needs to be dealt with so severly, such discriminatory language needs to be eradicated and made to be seen as wholly unacceptable and intolerable, so that everyone can move on from the crimes of the past. Sky and the UCI should be sending out a strong message here.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
**** Moscon.
Exactly this. F--- that guy. From The Tractor to The Racist.

kingjr said:
Angliru said:
kingjr said:
Jolene said:
Red Rick said:
He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.
Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?
No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.
Hypothetical: We're playing basketball and I'm just busting you up, scoring at will, blocking your shots, stealing the ball from you and you decide that calling me a racist slur is an effective means to stem the tide of your humiliation?
If it pisses you off, it does what it's supposed to. Maybe it makes you angry enough to hit me, giving me an excuse to hit you back.

@Zinoviev

It doesn't. It makes you an ******* though, I'll give you that.
You are so wrong here, kingjr. It is completely revealing if you choose to use a racial slur in an argument. Hell, I could be in an actual physical confrontation with someone but it wouldn't even cross my mind to do that.
 
May 26, 2009
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Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Angliru said:
He should be pulled from the race by Sky and as his team has admitted that he is guilty he should be suspended pending a investigation by UCI. Sky allowing him to continue to race after publicly admitting that he did in fact do what he's accused of tells everyone that their success in this race is more important than respecting the sport and their competitors.
This 100%
 
Sep 17, 2014
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Disgusting. He should be banned from the sport (as should Albasini).

But it's the way of things in all sports unfortunately. The more talented you are, the more you can get away with it. For example, Luis Suarez racially abused someone, and Liverpool responded by wearing T-shirts in his honour. :rolleyes:
 
Re:

sir fly said:
I believe the team will handle the unpleasantness like gentlemen would do.
Froome is African born, the corporation is socially engaged on the continent, as well... It's on Moscon to offer hand.

What has Froome being African born got to do with anything ??
Surely white people colonising Africa was at the root of alot of woes

As for 'the team will handle the unpleasantness like gentlemen ' phrase (nothing against SKY) but I am sure alot of those british colonials handled things like gentlemen and look what happened there ..such an archaic thing to say.

This is not internel matter ...this is for the UCI to take a stand and for Moscon to be suspended from the race and cycling for a limited period and fined ....clear message needed
 
Re:

sir fly said:
There's an elegant way to handle this situation, fully professional, avoids punishment but could bring a reward.
Wonder if they'll guess.
Interesting that some of the known Sky supporters seem to feel that Moscon shouldn't be pulled from the race and thus receive minimal punishment.
 
Re: Re:

Angliru said:
sir fly said:
There's an elegant way to handle this situation, fully professional, avoids punishment but could bring a reward.
Wonder if they'll guess.
Interesting that some of the known Sky supporters seem to feel that Mosconi shouldn't be pulled from the race and thus receive minimal punishment.
Don't want to go into their decision to keep him in the race, but keeping him in gives him a chance to get the thing straight... Who knows when's the next time they'll meet in a race?
Strike while the iron is hot... Or is it stroke?
 
Grivko was punching riders in the face, gets short ban and few people give a crap.

Now we have somebody who said 'something racist', we don't even know exactly what it was, and people are demanding he gets fired.

When did words become worse then violence?
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Grivko was punching riders in the face, gets short ban and few people give a crap.

Now we have somebody who said 'something racist', we don't even know exactly what it was, and people are demanding he gets fired.

When did words become worse then violence?
You're comparing one group of people with another different group.

I personally think Grivko should have been banned for life.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Grivko was punching riders in the face, gets short ban and few people give a crap.

Now we have somebody who said 'something racist', we don't even know exactly what it was, and people are demanding he gets fired.

When did words become worse then violence?
Definitely not Grivko who seems to think his actions were justified and commensurate with Kittel's behavior.
 
Apr 10, 2011
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Re:

Hayabusa said:
Sky supporter here. He should be fired. Disgusting.
lol really for in-race slur where riders are already running high on adrenaline ?

Doesnt excuse it, but firing is bit ridiculous
 

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