Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.

He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.

Reza isn't the only black rider who has been racially abused by another rider during a race. Samoilau used racial slurs against Berhane in the Tour of Austria one year. If I recall correctly Samoilau apologised and voluntarily paid a months salary to the Qhubeka charity.

I would guess that there have probably been other incidents apart from those involving Moscon, Albasini and Samoilau.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Apparently Gene has also been racially abused by competitors. Bernaudeau, his team boss, says he had to talk directly to other team's sponsors about it. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/jul/10/racism-claim-uci-tour-of-austria-natnael-berhane

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Grivko was punching riders in the face, gets short ban and few people give a crap.

Now we have somebody who said 'something racist', we don't even know exactly what it was, and people are demanding he gets fired.

When did words become worse then violence?

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Particularly considering that racist abuse has its roots in extreme violence and prejudice many times more severe and awful than an isolated punch. Racist abuse will do more damage long-term to the credibility of the sport, particularly if it is not dealt with by harsh punishments. It will also do much more damage to the brand of Sky, than Grivko throwing a punch will do to the Astana 'brand'. It may also have much more long standing effects on the victim. I doubt Kittel is too concerned about being punched again in the peloton, I doubt there are many people subconciously judging him and treating him differently than other riders because he was once punched.

Imo, both should be sacked. But racist abuse is more damaging to the sport and to Sky than throwing a punch is..

 

[Hayabusa]

Re:

Pretty sure i'd be fired if I racially abused someone. Don't see why sport starts should be different.

Exactly. I don't see how being a sportsman excuses you from the standard social norms.

 

[Jolene]

Re: Re:

I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.

He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.

Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?

No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.

Interesting, as using someone's gender, skin colour or sexuality would be the last thing on my mind when 'f**k off you f**king arse' is so much easier to roll off the tongue.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.

He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.

Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?

No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.

Isn't the main thing though the effect on the victim, not the motivation of the abuser? If you've grown up regularly being insulted, discrimnated against and being defined by your race, does it really matter if the racist abuse comes from a hateful racist or from someone just looking to get under your skin?

It's probably going to have the same effect on your mindset, cause the same stress, change how comfortable you feel doing your job in the peloton, maybe even make you consider if you want to keep on riding in such an environment. Regardless of the motivation, racist abuse isn't just 'getting under someone's skin'; because its an insult with its roots in centuries of slavery, repression, limited opportunities and general discrimination which is still present in society today. And using that kind of abuse, re-inforces and maintains these divisions and differences, which most in society are seeking to destroy.

Which is why it needs to be dealt with so severly, such discriminatory language needs to be eradicated and made to be seen as wholly unacceptable and intolerable, so that everyone can move on from the crimes of the past. Sky and the UCI should be sending out a strong message here.

Yes it is, and I pretty much agree with everything you've said in this post. If I was Sky I would have kicked him out of the team. Immediately. (Provided of course I know what he said and it's not just an accusation/allegation)

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

You are so wrong here, kingjr. It is completely revealing if you choose to use a racial slur in an argument. Hell, I could be in an actual physical confrontation with someone but it wouldn't even cross my mind to do that.

It reveals that he's a shitty human being, yes.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

I don't like Viviani that much but he did win an olympic gold last year which is very impressive.

Where did you find that about Moscon? If it is true then that is not at all in any way acceptable. Really poor from him, and I was beginning to like him. Why is it always Reza that is racially abused? There really need to be more black riders in the peloton to expel this racism.

He's not the only black rider in the peloton. Maybe he gets into a lot more heated stuff than the other black riders. People tend to say the dumbest **** when they're angry, and maybe they would've yelled something else if he'd been white.

Doesn't make it ok in any way, but stuff that's yelled by angry people should get less attention in general.

And more black riders would probably only make the problem come up more frequent, with more irritation from those who consider themselves victim, and those who think it's mostly an exaggerated non-issue.

Yes, angry people say silly things when angry BUT to say a racist term has to mean that at some level you are racist. If you're not racist then why would that word, phrase or thought even be in your head?

No, it doesn't. It just means means that you're willing to deal out low blows in order to hurt someone. Racist slurs are very effective if you want to hurt someone of colour.

Why would the word be in your head? Come on, if I want to hurt someone, the first thing I think of is how to get under the other guys' skin (no pun intended). Skin colour and sexuality are the first targets that come to mind.

Interesting, as using someone's gender, skin colour or sexuality would be the last thing on my mind when 'f**k off you f**king ****' is so much easier to roll off the tongue.

It is easier yes, but it doesn't really do anything, does it? I mean, I don't how long it's been since you're out of school, but those common insults you get accustomed to so quickly, they go in one ear and out the other with no effect. If you want to raise a ruckus, you have to aim lower. When I was in school, racial insults weren't much of a problem, simply because there practically weren't any black kids around. People with mental handicaps and personality disorders were the victims of choice. And not the victims of a few assholes who like to torture people, victims of almost everyone. I actually thought I was special because I felt guilt and shame at times, and tried to sort of befriend some who really didn't have anyone speaking for them.

 

[Jolene]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Knightjr, you do realise that if you use a term that is racist, sexist, homophobic and/or abusive to persons with a physical handicap then that makes you racist, sexist, homophobic and all around a rather repulsive person. There's never a reason to use these types of words, or actions.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Knightjr, you do realise that if you use a term that is racist, sexist, homophobic and/or abusive to persons with a physical handicap then that makes you racist, sexist, homophobic

Not necessarily

and all around a rather repulsive person.

absolutely

There's never a reason to use these types of words, or actions.

No justifiable one.

Go into any schoolclass, and try to find just one student not guilty of at least one of the things you and I mentioned, you will be hard pressed to find any. Maybe one in 30.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...6/British-Cycling-Team-Sky-heading-split.html
British Cycling have begun an official review of their relationship with Team Sky, with the conclusion expected to result in the professional road team vacating their offices at the National Cycling Centre.

The two organisations have shared the velodrome in Manchester since the formation of Team Sky in 2009 but that arrangement has come under serious scrutiny in the wake of the Jiffy bag controversy and bullying and discrimination allegations.

Jonathan Browning, the new British Cycling chairman, has said the situation would be reviewed as part of their new 39-point action plan and last week, Sportsmail can reveal, he held preliminary talks with Team Sky boss Sir Dave Brailsford.

While Sky confirmed on Wednesday that the issue of the pro team remaining at the velodrome was discussed by Browning and Brailsford, they insisted there were no immediate plans for them to leave.

But a senior Sky official did say the team are looking at various options in an ongoing search for new premises, even though it is not strictly in British Cycling’s power to drive them out.

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...crack-the-giro-ditalia-with-thomas-and-landa/
"Landa is very different and in a very different position as a rider and as a Grand Tour contender. He is in the final season of his two-year deal with Team Sky and is riding for his future."
He'll not wait for Gee on the lumpy bits :lol:

 

[infeXio]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...crack-the-giro-ditalia-with-thomas-and-landa/
"Landa is very different and in a very different position as a rider and as a Grand Tour contender. He is in the final season of his two-year deal with Team Sky and is riding for his future."
He'll not wait for Gee on the lumpy bits :lol:

I would love to see Landa go rogue :lol:

 

[rick james]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...crack-the-giro-ditalia-with-thomas-and-landa/
"Landa is very different and in a very different position as a rider and as a Grand Tour contender. He is in the final season of his two-year deal with Team Sky and is riding for his future."
He'll not wait for Gee on the lumpy bits :lol:

he's already said if they call him back he won't do it I don't think he should either, I can understand why Sky are going in with Landa and Thomas as co-leaders, too much TT in it for Landa

 

[wwabbit]

Well, I used to think that the the Giro curse is some silly myth

 

[therealthing]

So they have beaten last year's and 2015's record of most stages completed without a GC hopeful messing up. Porte binned it and Landa withdrew on stage 10, now the record is stage 9.

 

[JoeD1997]

According to PCS, Rosa has abandoned the Giro. I thought I saw him pacing Thomas on Blockhaus, must have been Henao if this is true. Either way one less stage hunter or GC helper

 

[DBotero]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

So Thomas will carry on:
"I've had worse crashes. My shoulder is sore but it's nothing I can't deal with. There's a lot more racing to be had so we'll get stuck in."
No words from Landa or Sky about his condition.

https://www.teamsky.com/article/crash-derails-giro-challenge

 

[kingjr]

Re:

According to PCS, Rosa has abandoned the Giro. I thought I saw him pacing Thomas on Blockhaus, must have been Henao if this is true. Either way one less stage hunter or GC helper

It was both Henao and Rosa at first.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

So they have beaten last year's and 2015's record of most stages completed without a GC hopeful messing up. Porte binned it and Landa withdrew on stage 10, now the record is stage 9.

Wiggins holds the record, as his Giro bid was over after stage 7.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

So Thomas will carry on:
"I've had worse crashes. My shoulder is sore but it's nothing I can't deal with. There's a lot more racing to be had so we'll get stuck in."
No words from Landa or Sky about his condition.

https://www.teamsky.com/article/crash-derails-giro-challenge

He's a tough guy and would only abandon if it was absolutely necessary. I suppose the only saving grace is that there are a lot of guys who've lost big time today and could work together to try something crazy if they are to finish high up on GC.

 

[thehook]

I cannot stand team SKY. And I'm NO G fan. But if he guts this out. His stock will rise in my book. Hardman!

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I cannot stand team SKY. And I'm NO G fan. But if he guts this out. His stock will rise in my book. Hardman!

I couldn't agree with you more.

Too bad for Sky...bad, bad, bad luck. I feel for the riders...

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Just terrible luck. I was looking forward to seeing how Thomas and Landa were going to do. Then one stupid accident later...

 

[deValtos]

Re:

Just terrible luck. I was looking forward to seeing how Thomas and Landa were going to do. Then one stupid accident later...

Yea one of the most annoying bits of this crash is we won't know what they were capable of and for these two riders in particular I was very curious because they both had potential to fail or succeed spectacularly.

If Froome/Quintana crash it sucks for them but we know what they're capable of so I don't feel robbed of my questions as much.