Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Grupetto1]

So many posts over the last few years have been about Wiggins and Froome's supposed Donkey to Racehorse transformation, but how would Henao fit into this pattern and 'join the dots' as people have been suggesting?

 

[Justinr]

That's pure conjecture at this stage. Could be they want to be ahead of the inevitable.

Which is also pure conjecture....

 

[Justinr]

Absolutely true. But if UCI, WADA and CADA had shown no interest to date, and you just want to hide the guy, why inform them and offer data? UCI appear to have confirmed this happened.

Maybe it's all part of a masterful Sky plot to check their own doping, I don't know. Just doesn't seem to fit to me.

Or maybe that they are being more stringent with variations in values than WADA/UCI/etc. Seems like that could fit if you hadn't already decided SKY were doping some time ago despite a complete lack of evidence, etc...

 

[sniper]

Thought this particular gentleman asked a good set of questions;
(this could end up JTL btw with no information for weeks/months).

ask those to walsh on twitter.
i doubt you'll get through.
he's doing more whitewashing for sky.

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
An obvious question: how many WorldTour teams would see a slightly suspicious bio result as a reason for withdrawing rider from competition?

matthew henderson ‏@matthenderson83 11h
@DavidWalshST makes it hard to understand why Sky have done something if no rules have been broken but it does make them look proactive

 

[Justinr]

I'd not read the Italian and original version.

It's a little different than the cyclingnews interpretation.

WADA in a "controlli a sorpresa" so a surprise control tested Heano. That test came back or directly at the time reported "adverse results".

So Sky contacted the UCI and asked for the test to stopped and clarity sort. Sky said they'd provide information to WADA and UCI on the outcome of their tests.

Their claim is that a rider who lives and spends most of his time at altitude shouldn't report such levels.

Most odd. The surprise control I find most revealing along with the contact of the UCI to circumvent the result. ie damage control.

Interesting. And hence why Heano's agent reported to the Gazetta as Sky are acting alone here.

That translated well then ... I'm more confused than before.

 

[The Hitch]

I really don't know what to make of this yet. I'll wait and see what information comes out.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So many posts over the last few years have been about Wiggins and Froome's supposed Donkey to Racehorse transformation, but how would Henao fit into this pattern and 'join the dots' as people have been suggesting?

Summary of Henao:

2013: Definitely a worker during grand tours. Pretty big schedule and had a good year. Did Giro/Vuelta double.
2012: Had an excellent year at Sky. Big schedule, did Giro/Vuelta double.
2011: 2nd overall at Tour of Utah, top-20 at Colorado's event while being a continental pro. We don't know about lower classification events.
2010: Wins Colombian stage races.


http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?=&id=140820&season=2013

2012 was frankly amazing, and he followed it up in 2013 pretty well.

I don't know if it connects dots or not.

 

[Justinr]

The beauty of Italian language is there is the Google direct translation and then the Italian contextual and implied meaning; as in this case for yourself; “ma che dici?”



I say this in jest so take nothing from it. Just demonstrating the usage of language, the informality. When reading the article the actual meaning is lost in Google translate.

Which may be where the 'by surprise' bit comes from - poor / (un)colloquial translation. To ensure proper understanding it needs a native Italian / English speaker to translate it.

 

[thehog]

Which may be where the 'by surprise' bit comes from - poor / (un)colloquial translation. To ensure proper understanding it needs a native Italian / English speaker to translate it.

Go for it! Happy for others to contribute better than the googlers, yes?

 

[thehog]

ask those to walsh on twitter.
i doubt you'll get through.
he's doing more whitewashing for sky.

My initial outage with Walsh has been replaced with 'god bless him'.

I adore him. I truly do.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Most odd. The surprise control I find most revealing along with the contact of the UCI to circumvent the result. ie damage control.

Interesting. And hence why Heano's agent reported to the Gazetta as Sky are acting alone here.

Another example of an anti-doping agency being the weakest actor simply because that's how the system was designed.

 

[Justinr]

Why did Sky only suspend him now, if the anomaly in Henao’s values happened in October, and if the Gazetta first had to report on it?

Maybe they only got the data in Feb?

Perfectly plausible for instance : blood taken in late October, tested in November, not much in December due to Xmas, validated and filed in January, available to team in February? I can't see the wheels of doping agencies working at top speed during the off season.

 

[thehog]

Another example of an anti-doping agency being the weakest actor simply because that's how the system was designed.

Correct. It reads like there was a test with an adverse result. So Sky and the UCI sat around talking about it for a while before telling WADA that Sky would commission their own report on the matter!

Shades of Vjarjm all over this one!

 

[Justinr]

Go for it! Happy for others to contribute better than the googlers, yes?

Absolutely. Google can sometimes do a pretty good translation but at other times makes a complete **** of it!

 

[BYOP88]

Correct. It reads like there was a test with an adverse result. So Sky and the UCI sat around talking about it for a while before telling WADA that Sky would commission their own report on the matter!

Shades of Vjarjm all over this one!

Cookson probably talked about it with his son over Christmas dinner.

 

[The Hitch]

2011: 2nd overall at Tour of Utah, top-20 at Colorado's event while being a continental pro. We don't know about lower classification events.
2010: Wins Colombian stage races.

I wouldn't put the Vuelta a Colombia down like that. It was more impressive than Tour of Colorador or Utah. He was only 23 when he won it. A number of us saw he was going to be very good when he won it at that age.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Absolutely. Google can sometimes do a pretty good translation but at other times makes a complete **** of it!

I still recall a race report than Google translated Rigberto Uran to Captain Uranium!

 

[Jelantik]

Correct. It reads like there was a test with an adverse result. So Sky and the UCI sat around talking about it for a while before telling WADA that Sky would commission their own report on the matter!

Shades of Vjarjm all over this one!

i think, it's the way sky tries to control the narrative . It's for PR image. It's better to be proactive and announced it first than having UCI making an official announcement. With so many scrutiny with sky, they don't want to repeat JTL fiasco anymore, where they have to explain to the public.

In honesty, I don't know what to make about this story. Proofing that if you live and train in high altitude, you are okay to have anomalies? uufffffhhh... really doesn't know what direction this will go. It's like opening up a can of worm. I'll wait and see what happen end of april.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Summary of Henao:

2013: Definitely a worker during grand tours. Pretty big schedule and had a good year. Did Giro/Vuelta double.
2012: Had an excellent year at Sky. Big schedule, did Giro/Vuelta double.
2011: 2nd overall at Tour of Utah, top-20 at Colorado's event while being a continental pro. We don't know about lower classification events.
2010: Wins Colombian stage races.


http://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?=&id=140820&season=2013

2012 was frankly amazing, and he followed it up in 2013 pretty well.

I don't know if it connects dots or not.

you shoudl go back more as he was a killer in u23 races in europe as well in those he rode and he did with the clean colombia es pasison team of saldarriaga

 

[thehog]

i think, it's the way sky tries to control the narrative . It's for PR image. It's better to be proactive and announced it first than having UCI making an official announcement. With so many scrutiny with sky, they don't want to repeat JTL fiasco anymore, where they have to explain to the public.

In honesty, I don't know what to make about this story. Proofing that if you live and train in high altitude, you are okay to have anomalies? uufffffhhh... really doesn't know what direction this will go. It's like opening up a can of worm. I'll wait and see what happen end of april.

I don't disagree. It's just these days when this stuff comes up there's always some odd ball story starting with it being leaked. It's then swiftly followed by a statement from Sky about transparency. Shortly thereafter the UCI pretend they are doing something. Then silence for about 18 months!

 

[the sceptic]

Im sure hogwalsh will provide clarity to all these issues in his upcoming piece in the sunday times.

But its hard to figure out whats really going on with so many twists coming from everywhere.

One question that springs to mind is; if the test in question was done in october, why did it take sky so long to suspend him?

 

[BYOP88]

Im sure hogwalsh will provide clarity to all these issues in his upcoming piece in the sunday times.

But its hard to figure out whats really going on with so many twists coming from everywhere.

One question that springs to mind is; if the test in question was done in october, why did it take sky so long to suspend him?

It was the holidays!! Can't suspend a guy during those and those who suspend people were on vacation and have just got back in the last 24-30 hours.

 

[biker jk]

The Out of Competition testers were certainly shocked to see Henao looking like this when they arrived at his home in Colombia.

 

[Lanark]

Which is also pure conjecture....

Yes, that's what 'could be' signifies...

 

[Netserk]

I wouldn't put the Vuelta a Colombia down like that. It was more impressive than Tour of Colorador or Utah. He was only 23 when he won it. A number of us saw he was going to be very good when he won it at that age.

I think it's fair to say that it's very much possible for him to be doped back then.

edit: Got post #25,000 lol.