Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

Hog: Where are you getting some of this stuff from?
I've gone through the Gazzetta article and the one here, but I'm not finding a lot of the detail you are posting.

The beauty of Italian language is there is the Google direct translation and then the Italian contextual and implied meaning; as in this case for yourself; “ma che dici?”



I say this in jest so take nothing from it. Just demonstrating the usage of language, the informality. When reading the article the actual meaning is lost in Google translate.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Looking at the 2012 figures

Section 4 data by test authority.

Out of 206 391 samples tested globally (Table F1 page 35)

WADA tested 913 (Table F8 page 42).

Thats not even 0.5% of tests.

They basically don't do tests. (Sure they do a few, but a tiny tiny fraction)

Henao being tested was far more likely to be by the Columbian National authority, at the behest of the UCI (using a 3rd party or more likely the National authority), or internally by the team.

<edit>
Even then, if you look at UKAD figures, they do some testing on behalf of WADA. Not sure how they are accounted for in these tables, WADA when they request testing tend to delegate to other bodies, where such entities exist.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Indeed. If they are asking for advice on understanding the readings as the press-release says why are they asking the UCI not WADA or a testing centre that specialises in blood values?!

They don't necessarily know how to read the results of the test run.

A team needs to learn how to defeat the test in the future.

Henao's not going positive. The UCI has done this before. Could be a tough to win on appeal, it could be Henao is on the UCI's popularity list. What we know is anything is possible.

First JTL, now Henao.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Henao being tested was far more likely to be by the Columbian National authority, at the behest of the UCI (using a 3rd party or more likely the National authority), or internally by the team

If the test was at team level, why would they ask WADA? They'd ask the lab to explain the test. WADA and the UCI would be out of the loop.

Possible testing authorities in no particular order:
A cycling federation. BC or Colombia?
UCI

ASO collects samples weeks before the start of the TdF. Maybe another race did the same?

 

[Mellow Velo]

The beauty of Italian language is there is the Google direct translation and then the Italian contextual and implied meaning; as in this case for yourself; “ma che dici?”



I say this in jest so take nothing from it. Just demonstrating the usage of language, the informality. When reading the article the actual meaning is lost in Google translate.

Thanks....................er, I think.
Thought I hadn't directly missed such important stuff.

Interesting overview of what little is so far known, just don't go reading the comments underneath:
http://inrng.com/2014/03/sergio-henao-sky-withdrawal/#more-19040

 

[thehog]

If the test was at team level, why would they ask WADA? They'd ask the lab to explain the test. WADA and the UCI would be out of the loop.

Possible testing authorities in no particular order:
A cycling federation. BC or Colombia?
UCI

ASO collects samples weeks before the start of the TdF. Maybe another race did the same?

The interesting part is the "surprise" element. WADA had already identified at their most recent conference that IF and sporting bodies are too predictable in their OOC testing.

Appears they nabbed their man at the opportune time or window.

Catch the low hanging fruit first then work your way to the top?

 

[BYOP88]

So will Brailsford be sending Sebastián back to Colombia as well? Until they've done their tests to work out what altitude does to your body when you dope and how it effects the passport.

 

[Catwhoorg]

A variety of races do collect samples a short time (2-3 days) before the start, technically the WADA standard IC window opens 12 hours before an event.

That window can be adjusted for specific events though (that's a comment in the code).

I doubt Henao was tested by a race (they tend to do it 'on site' once teams have got together for simple logistics) as he hasn't been racing.


I also doubt UKAD did the testing, so its likely the Columbian Authority , either on their own or at the request of the UCI

 

[Catwhoorg]

So will Brailsford be sending Sebastián back to Colombia as well? Until they've done their tests to work out what altitude does to your body when you dope and how it effects the passport.

He was racing today. (March 19th)

 

[MartinGT]

Far too many unanswered questions about this for this to be over soon IMO.

Watch this space as they say!

 

[BYOP88]

He was racing today. (March 19th)

They must have done the altitude research with him then.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Also Sergio is still listed under riders on the squad page, unlike JTL.

 

[Benotti69]

Also Sergio is still listed under riders on the squad page, unlike JTL.

no wonder JTL sold all his Sky stuff on ebay.

 

[thehog]

A variety of races do collect samples a short time (2-3 days) before the start, technically the WADA standard IC window opens 12 hours before an event.

That window can be adjusted for specific events though (that's a comment in the code).

I doubt Henao was tested by a race (they tend to do it 'on site' once teams have got together for simple logistics) as he hasn't been racing.


I also doubt UKAD did the testing, so its likely the Columbian Authority , either on their own or at the request of the UCI

I'll help you here.

Why not look up the info you want instead of posting each step in your thought process?

From the Gazetta article;

"Nato a Rionegro, nell'ottobre scorso è tornato a casa per allenarsi in quota, sugli altipiani della Colombia, dove è stato sottoposto ai controlli a sorpresa che fanno parte del programma dell'Agenzia mondiale antidoping (Wada)."

The key here is "sorpresa" and "WADA". Now I do agree it could be interpreted that it was a body working with or for WADA but reads like WADA directed the test and may also conducted the collection. In essence a WADA test.

Like DiLuca. WADA supplied the UCI the information, the UCI tested him OOC.

Capisce?

 

[sniper]

Far too many unanswered questions

to be sure, uci/cookson have as many questions to answer here as sky do.
uci's role here as well as their public statement on the matter are awkward.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I'll help you here.

Why not look up the info you want instead of posting each step in your thought process?

From the Gazetta article;

"Nato a Rionegro, nell'ottobre scorso è tornato a casa per allenarsi in quota, sugli altipiani della Colombia, dove è stato sottoposto ai controlli a sorpresa che fanno parte del programma dell'Agenzia mondiale antidoping (Wada)."

The key here is "sorpresa" and "WADA". Now I do agree it could be interpreted that it was a body working with or for WADA but reads like WADA directed the test and may also conducted the collection. In essence a WADA test.

Like DiLuca. WADA have the UCI the information, the UCI tested him OOC.

Capisce?

Sky confirmed Henao underwent WADA-accredited controls during a winter trip to Colombia, but did not specify if it was linked to those tests. A biological passport violation could lead up to a two-year ban for a first-time offense.

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...oping-test-results_320639#RQ6gZwLobDS76p3j.99

The information (as expected in an early stage) is not clear and slightly contradictory from different sources.

WADA-accredited means done in line with the WADA protocols, and tested in a WADA approved lab. (presumably Bogata)

 

[sniper]

do they have bilharzia in colombia?

 

[BYOP88]

do they have bilharzia in colombia?

Only on Wednesday's when doping stories break.

 

[thehog]

Sky confirmed Henao underwent WADA-accredited controls during a winter trip to Colombia, but did not specify if it was linked to those tests. A biological passport violation could lead up to a two-year ban for a first-time offense.

Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...oping-test-results_320639#RQ6gZwLobDS76p3j.99

The information (as expected in an early stage) is not clear and slightly contradictory from different sources.

WADA-accredited means done in line with the WADA protocols, and tested in a WADA approved lab. (presumably Bogata)

Well done detective!

I'd temper anything from Sky with a grain of salt the size of Bogata.

Here I'm listening to Heano. Not Sky. And WADA not the UCI.

Then I might get something sensible.

Could that be a rap lyric?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Of course Henao's agent doesn't have any skin in this game at all does he ?




But yes I await further developments with great interest, be they through the UCI or any anti-doping agency.

 

[Benotti69]

Of course Henao's agent doesn't have any skin in this game at all does he ?




But yes I await further developments with great interest, be they through the UCI or any anti-doping agency.

Henao's agent wants his rider to have a future, therefore a negative.

Sky want the rider to be negative.

UCI want the rider to be negative.

Who to trust?

Send a rider home for what exactly?

Ride in Colombia and get tested and tested by whom?

Sky are paying for the tests?

All very strange.

 

[thehog]

Of course Henao's agent doesn't have any skin in this game at all does he ?




But yes I await further developments with great interest, be they through the UCI or any anti-doping agency.

True. Hence why his agent went to Gazetta (non-Murdoch press).

Lessons learnt from JTL being hung by Brailsford. Thanks Dave. Always has the riders back

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Sceptic - Calm it down with the sparring with Mr Vickers, please. Thanks.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

EnacheV - Please be less anatomically suggestive in your sparring. Thanks.

 

[thehog]

Thanks....................er, I think.
Thought I hadn't directly missed such important stuff.

Interesting overview of what little is so far known, just don't go reading the comments underneath:
http://inrng.com/2014/03/sergio-henao-sky-withdrawal/#more-19040

The article is good for this preliminary stage. The comments are scary.

Thought this particular gentleman asked a good set of questions;

(this could end up JTL btw with no information for weeks/months).

Some of the questions left unanswered:

Why did Sky only suspend him now, if the anomaly in Henao’s values happened in October, and if the Gazetta first had to report on it?

Why does Sky not just name to name the what irregular value Henao has? How does that go for transparency?

Why does Sky say they first informed UCI/WADA/CADF of irregular values, on a test they say that was introduced the authorities this winter, and not the other way around? How does that make sense?

If Sky doesn’t understand the readings, why does it suggest it must have been caused by living at altitude and nothing else? How can they say that if they don’t understand the readings in the first place?

How are we supposed to trust research that is fully paid for by Sky and completely deterministic in nature with its only purpose to give an explanation (excuse?) for Henao’s values?