BYOP88 said:
Whilst there's a national chat thing going.
Martin, can you explain to me if it's explainable and doesn't take several years to explain, why Ireland plays Rugby as Ireland but in Football it's Northern Ireland and Rep. of Ireland? Also are there any other sports where they play as Ireland?
EDIT: If a mod can move this to an appropriate thread that would be great.
In short....(God help me)
Most major international sports were first set up prior to 1922 - at that stage, Ireland as a whole was still part of the UK, just.
Most major international sports were set up wholly or partly by the English; and where they did, they tended to compete against scotland, wales and ireland. as the sports went international, this strange arrangement remained the norm. See Soccer, Rugby (both codes), Cricket, Netball, until very recently Athletics and Boxing.
Evidence: lots (though not all - EWCB)of English sports orgs and comps don't have England or English in the name, they just are THE organisation - the Football Association, The Rugby Football Union, The Rugby Football League, the Lawn Tennis Association, the Amateur Athletics Assocaition etc. Because they were the first, and there was no need for further explanation.
To this day, although FIFA organises football, it doesn't set the rules. International Football Association Board does - and it's made up of 8 members - 4 from FIFA and one each from Eng, Sco, Wal and NI - at least 6 of whom most vote for any change to the laws - so the home nations, acting together have a veto (as do FIFA)
THe only exception was the Olympics. why? 'cos, frankly, it was set up by a frenchie! When the Brits set up their similar endeavour (the empire/commonwealth games) guess what?? The home nations competed seperately - including, for several years Ireland post 1922.
So historically, most major Irish sports (including, off course GAA) were played on an all ireland basis prior to 1922, and simply kept going afterwards - not least because most Irish (though not most Northern Irish) wanted Ireland reunited at some stage.
So, why is Soccer different...aah!
Soccer in Ireland, uniquely was run from Belfast, not Dublin - soccer was far stronger in ulster. as such, some Southern/Catholic clubs felt the IFA (note the 'northern irish' association is simply called the Irish Football Association, not the Northern Irish anything)...were less than even handed, and the whole war of independence thing made things worse -the final straw was IFA moving a cup semifinal featuring dublin team Shelbourne to Belfast - The Leinster regional FA, and the southern clubs broke away to form the League of Ireland and the then Football Association of the Irish Free State, As Did several 'catholic' northern clubs.
So far so good. Bear with it.
The home nations pre war ignored FIFA and didn't compete in the World Cup; they thought it was beneath them, and their Home Nations Championship was more important. Yep, seriously.
This gave the new FA-IFS an opportunity, which it took, to affiliate to FIFA and attempt to be the all-ireland FIFA recognised association.
After WWII, the home nations caught themselves on a bit, and started entering world cups - unfortunately IFA ALSO considered themselves the sole Ireland representative - and FIFA just accepted both.
So for a time you had TWO Ireland teams, both claiming universal irish jurisdiction, both in FIFA. And some players, notably MUFC hero Johnny cArey, played for both - in the same tournaments!
FIFA finally said enough's enough - the solution? The two Associations were 'coralled' into their own jurisdictions, and internationally had to be referred to as Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - the latter still rankles with some due to a convoluted dispute over the proper name for the country, but FIFA insist.
Finally, in the last few years, after years of not doing so, the FAI (dublin FA) started picking interested players born in Northern Ireland - Gibson, McClean etc - this upset IFA a lot, and they went to CAS, but lost completely. Everyone born in NI of an Irish (north or south) born parent is entitled as birthright to Irish citizenship, which kicks in retrospectively the first time a person does an act 'consistent' with it (like apply for a passport, or use it as the nationlaity on the form) - but it not an 'acquired' nationality - you're born with the right it.
AS you can imagine, northern ireland born people who would prefer a united ireland outside the uk (nationalists - between 30-45% depending who you ask) tend to be more drawn to the team that waves a tricolour and sings amrain na bhian, than the one flying a union flag and singing god save the queen. It remains a live, and divisive, issue.
So that's why.
p.s. where all Ireland teams have survived - specifically rugby, both codes, and cricket, teams have taken to using Phil Coulter's Ireland's Call as the 'national' anthem, and playing under one of a number of flags - wikipedia articles will give you a good flavour of the flag miscelleny - 4 province flag, logo of organisation, shamrocks on a shield on a plain green back etc...
Yep, I know, bonkers.
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