Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Ripper]

Sky has made a rod for people to beat them with, I don't think the financial people who insisted on it, really had a clue just how prevalent doping was.

I don't think it was only the financial people. But yes, Sky really do provide some ammo. Unfortunately, the fanboy base they have is a bit blind to much or all of it.

 

[gooner]

Cycling champion Sir Bradley Wiggins is embroiled in a complex legal tussle over his earnings from his £5 million Tour de France triumph and sponsorship deals.

The 2012 Olympic gold medallist, who became the first Briton to win the Tour, is being sued in the High Court by his former management team at the MTC agency.

The dispute began when MTC, which represents sporting stars including Sally Gunnell, Jonathan Edwards, Colin Jackson and Steve Backley, billed him for commission of £741,000 on his contract with Team Sky.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-disputes-740-000-bill-management-team.html

 

[BroDeal]

I don't think it was only the financial people. But yes, Sky really do provide some ammo. Unfortunately, the fanboy base they have is a bit blind to much or all of it.

Brailsford and his supporters blaming ill-defined "financial people" is a way to take the blame off Brailsford himself. Let us not forget when the Landis investigation started up, long before these financial people supposedly insisted on a zero tolerance policy, Brailsford put in place a policy to fire anyone who talked. He publicly warned people, in effect, not to cooperate if they wanted to stay employed at Sky. He has always believed in and practiced a policy of omertà.

 

[Franklin]

The ASO event in Yorkshire apparently still in motion:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...g-race-legacy-british-tour-de-france-success?

Not that ASO hasn't already benefited from Sky winning a couple of TdF's.

I have no problem with organisers following up on the surge of Brittish cycling. It gets the cash flowing and it's nice for the fans. If a countryman wins a TdF and then it's celeberated by a nice stage race in my province I would be quite happy.

Actually, last time I saw a GT stage was in Amsterdam where Wiggo won the ITT It was a great day. I had made quite a few nice pictures and got a pink bandana my then 2 year old son loved.

So there you have it... I actually for once think Bradley Wiggins win has a positive effect

 

[MartinGT]

I have no problem with organisers following up on the surge of Brittish cycling. It gets the cash flowing and it's nice for the fans. If a countryman wins a TdF and then it's celeberated by a nice stage race in my province I would be quite happy.

Actually, last time I saw a GT stage was in Amsterdam where Wiggo won the ITT It was a great day. I had made quite a few nice pictures and got a pink bandana my then 2 year old son loved.

So there you have it... I actually for once think Bradley Wiggins win has a positive effect

I was there for that too

I actually do not think 'we' deserve the TdF in the UK at all. BC do very little for cycling in our country and the attitude of most towards cycling is appalling.

I just cannot wait for them to realise the roads will be shut most of the day

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't think the financial people who insisted on it, really had a clue just how prevalent doping was.

Did that really happen? Because demanding a dope-free staff would be something a lawyer would dream up while the money people are entirely indifferent.

Love that interview!

 

[DirtyWorks]

I have no problem with organisers following up on the surge of Brittish cycling. It gets the cash flowing

To the bolded, ASO being the big cash flow winner of your tax dollars.

Is participating in cycling really surging in the UK? Or, is it just viewers like it was in the U.S.? It's an honest question.

 

[Franklin]

To the bolded, ASO being the big cash flow winner of your tax dollars.

Could be worse, like buying an Advanced Strike Fighter.

Is participating in cycling really surging in the UK? Or, is it just viewers like it was in the U.S.? It's an honest question.

It is surging afaik. There's a lot more cyclists on the road. If anything, the anger of the UK autombilists is an indication of the growing of this "problem". But I would say road congestion and oil price are more contributing than Sky/Wiggo.

but in this context: There's a diference between a surge in cycling fans and people actually riding their bike. There's probably an overlap, but I'm not convinced that it's big. Watching sport does not equal participating ^^ The surge I meant was simply more fans (thus more interest and more sponsors)

 

[oldcrank]

Is participating in cycling really surging in the UK?

Yes, my friend, and is easily quantifiable ways:
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/ab...sh-Cycling-reaches-75-000-members-milestone-0
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3727900.ece
Partly due to British sporting successes, partly due to rising petrol
costs, and partly due to a number of government initiatives.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Did that really happen? Because demanding a dope-free staff would be something a lawyer would dream up while the money people are entirely indifferent.

Love that interview!

If you read David Millar's, Racing through the Dark, the story is that in the early days he was going to be part of the as yet unnamed BC road team. Which would seem logical with Fran's connection, and he and Brailsford go way back.

Sky came on board and the ZTP was in, Millar was out.


So taking that at face value, ZTP was imposed by Sky, not BC/Brailsford.

Which goes with the fact that BC/Brailsford have not hesitated to pick Millar for events in recent times.

 

[Catwhoorg]

As for the surge in cycling, just anecdotally, when visiting my parents last summer, the number of cyclists on the rail/trail I did my runs on was hugely higher than even 3-4 years before.

All ages, mountain bikes, hybrids, roadies, tourers, pretty much everything.

 

[Catwhoorg]

If you read David Millar's, Racing through the Dark, the story is that in the early days he was going to be part of the as yet unnamed BC road team. Which would seem logical with Fran's connection, and he and Brailsford go way back.

Sky came on board and the ZTP was in, Millar was out.


So taking that at face value, ZTP was imposed by Sky, not BC/Brailsford.

Which goes with the fact that BC/Brailsford have not hesitated to pick Millar for events in recent times.

I went back and checked the source.

the quote (page 311 in my edition). after some discussions on how he was helping DB get Sky set-up and running with advice comments, etc and certainly joining was being discussed.

"Dave told me that SKY couldn't take me because of my doping past and that he would be enforcing a zero tolerance policy towards any members of the SKY professional cycling team having any prior doping history"

My bold on the he.

So the Sky insistence is something subsequently put on financial/Sky people. It reads like it was Brailsfords policy at the time.

 

[bobbins]

The people at Sky are clueless - they might impose whatever rules they think are right but it is Dave B or Fran that advise them. At least one BSkyB board member was made aware of what the team were up to and nothing has changed - the gravy train is too good to rock the boat. It's funny how much leeway a load of free kit and bikes can get you!

 

[martinvickers]

I went back and checked the source.

the quote (page 311 in my edition). after some discussions on how he was helping DB get Sky set-up and running with advice comments, etc and certainly joining was being discussed.

"Dave told me that SKY couldn't take me because of my doping past and that he would be enforcing a zero tolerance policy towards any members of the SKY professional cycling team having any prior doping history"

My bold on the he.

So the Sky insistence is something subsequently put on financial/Sky people. It reads like it was Brailsfords policy at the time.

I'm not sure it does - as team manager, presumably his job IS to enforce team policies - which is a separate issue from where and how those policies originate.

At some early stage, it seems clear Brailsford originally intended to hire Millar for his PRO-BC team, and he certainly continued to pick him in BC/GB world squads even after he didn't hire him. So what changed his mind, and why is he verbotten for Sky but kosher for BC, run by the same guy?

Obvious answer, Ockham style, is that the difference is Sky themselves, rather than DB/BC. Not least because while a ZTP going forward (basically Garmin) is arguably feasible, if difficult, a retrospective ZTP, given where cycling was, is bonkers, and no-one who had been about the pro sport would realistically argue for it.

A retrospective ZTP appeals to two constituencies. Newbie fans, and a big Newbie Sponsor, neither terribly 'in the know'. It invites ridicule from knowledgable and semi knowledgable fans, however well intentioned - it seems at best, naive, at worst disingenuous. Most clinicians, like Paul Kimmage, don't accept Brailsford is naive. I agree, he's not. But it's possible that he's disingenuous because he's hamstrung by the corporate master, rather than because he's an evil doping genius/lucky doping idiot (take your pick).

 

[Netserk]

Or maybe it's because Millar is part-owner of another team...

 

[doolols]

Come on, now. You know Sky are the consummate professionals, no detail left unexplored, marginal gains, etc etc.

#mesh #skinsuits #oops

 

[Taxus4a]

Come on, now. You know Sky are the consummate professionals, no detail left unexplored, marginal gains, etc etc.

#mesh #skinsuits #oops

This is a mistake you can do in January, but it is funny anyway, next time protector...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Or maybe it's because Millar is part-owner of another team...

In the time frame being discussed he rode for Garmin, but wasn't at that point an investor.

 

[Netserk]

In the time frame being discussed he rode for Garmin, but wasn't at that point an investor.

I thought he invested in 2008

When did he?

 

[Benotti69]

Come on, now. You know Sky are the consummate professionals, no detail left unexplored, marginal gains, etc etc.

#mesh #skinsuits #oops

Bet those marginal gains sting and meant a good nights sleep on his back. Ouch!

But Sky did that on purpose, of course they did....

 

[elduggo]

Bet those marginal gains sting and meant a good nights sleep on his back. Ouch!

But Sky did that on purpose, of course they did....

when Richie Froome rides up K2 in record time later in the year they'll claim its cos he had sunburn in january

 

[Benotti69]

when Richie Froome rides up K2 in record time later in the year they'll claim its cos he had sunburn in january

Haha, amazing how amateurish Sky are sometimes.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I thought he invested in 2008

When did he?

He mentions it in his book. I am sure it was after he had paid his back taxes to France, which he did in 2009 (IIRC). I'll have to double check.

 

[Benotti69]

He mentions it in his book. I am sure it was after he had paid his back taxes to France, which he did in 2009 (IIRC). I'll have to double check.

Didn't he do a deal with the doping fine and Slipstream which meant he became an owner by default.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Dave mentions earlier in the book, doesn't spell a date specifically but it does appear to be 2008. It comes just after a mention of a November 2007 get together.