Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Might beg the question who is gonna control those stages. I imagine a good amount of riders will be looking for those breakaways so they'll probably already ship some time the first chance they get. I imagine most GC teams will be happy the bonus seconds are gone, and those stages aren't hard enough to really try for an attack for the punchier of the GC riders.

There are some teams that might be interested in uphill sprint stages. Sky for Moscon, Bora for McCarthy, Jumbo for De Plus, AG2R for Vuillermoz.. But you are right, it's hard to imagine any teams going all in for the hilly stage. The GT leaders need to have a fresh team before the mountains.

Katusha for Battaglin, UAE for Ulissi.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

It's official, Matthews is riding the Tour. So are Alaphilippe, Sagan, GVA.

Valverde's biggest rivals for those stages are breakaway riders, not other puncheurs.

So Valverde is doing a Dumo and running away from the competition to make it as easy as possible to win a Jersey. Makes sense at his age.

To be fair, he has a great chance of wearing Giro and literally no chances of wearing yellow because of the TTT.

But if he only is there as a stage hunter, there are almost more chances in the Tour than Giro. Stage 3 in the Tour features a lot of muro-like climbs.

For example: Is this a Sagan stage or a Valverde stage? I can't tell.

The Vosges stage to Colmar is also really good for him.

Or it's more of the fact that he prefers the Giro and Vuelta to the Tour and has been trying to get out of racing the Tour since he got his podium there in 2015. (Hence the reason he raced all 3 GTs in 2016 because he won't miss la Vuelta). Is he going stage hunting or going for overall or racing for Landa? Great question and he doesn't seem to know the answer to that. He's not running away from the competition (he'll be at the Ardennes), it's more he would prefer to race the Giro over the Tour as he likes it better. At his age he should have the right to race what he wants to race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So this is most likely how the GTs will look like:

Giro: Valverde, Landa and Carapaz
Tour: Quintana, Landa and Soler
Vuelta: Valverde and Quintana + maybe Soler/Carapaz, Carapaz is more likely.

That means you need 5 dedicated, 100% domestiques in every GT. In the Tour it could be Oliveira, Amador, Bennati, Erviti and Fernandez/Valls. Verona, Rojas or Roelandts could also be very useful. They have a slightly better team with more depth this year, but as always it comes down to the stars and if they can deliver.

 

[Rollthedice]

Spot the Landa

 

[Koronin]

Re:

So this is most likely how the GTs will look like:

Giro: Valverde, Landa and Carapaz
Tour: Quintana, Landa and Soler
Vuelta: Valverde and Quintana + maybe Soler/Carapaz, Carapaz is more likely.

That means you need 5 dedicated, 100% domestiques in every GT. In the Tour it could be Oliveira, Amador, Bennati, Erviti and Fernandez/Valls. Verona, Rojas or Roelandts could also be very useful. They have a slightly better team with more depth this year, but as always it comes down to the stars and if they can deliver.

Erviti definitely at la Vuelta and most likely at the Giro as well. It's unlikely he'll go to the Tour. He's almost become Valverde's personal domestique. Hopefully Fernandez can put together a season without injuries.
From things Soler has said recently it sounds like he's likely to have a very similar calendar in 2019 to what he had in 2018.

 

[Nirvana]

Telefonica has stopped the sponsorship of the MotoGP team, I wonder if this means they are are going to throw more money in the cycling team considering that MotoGP sponsorship costs were huge (Valentino Rossi's salary alone is reported to be 12M $ by Forbes) so they have a lot more money for other sponsorships.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Telefonica has stopped the sponsorship of the MotoGP team, I wonder if this means they are are going to throw more money in the cycling team considering that MotoGP sponsorship costs were huge (Valentino Rossi's salary alone is reported to be 12M $ by Forbes) so they have a lot more money for other sponsorships.

They renewed their sponsorship with the cycling team back in Dec. From what was said sounds like it was very similar to their current contract. Interesting they stopped sponsorship of the Moto GP team. They do have other sponsorship as the parent company is Telefonica. Telefonica it's self is a personal sponsor of Fernando Alonso. They have some other involvement in motorsports under the Telefonica name.

 

[Robert5091]

I like the idea of Carapaz & Landa at the Giro - if these 2 guys work together and don't play silly b*****s it could be fun viewing.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

I like the idea of Carapaz & Landa at the Giro - if these 2 guys work together and don't play silly b*****s it could be fun viewing.

I think they can work well together. Yes it should be fun to watch if both are peaking for it. Then of course they'll have Valverde as a Super Domestique as well.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Landa gone, Quintana going, Valverde past his prime
Who is the next big rider for Movistar?

 

[rghysens]

Re:

Landa gone, Quintana going, Valverde past his prime
Who is the next big rider for Movistar?

Rumours about them wanted to hire Mas.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Surely they're not gonna make Valverde leader for the Giro? Unless they're just going for the team classification as usual. Would like to see Carapaz given a chance.

 

[Koronin]

Surely they're not gonna make Valverde leader for the Giro? Unless they're just going for the team classification as usual. Would like to see Carapaz given a chance.

Landa is supposed to be race leader for the Giro and Valverde said way back before the season that he didn't want to race the Giro for GC.


The team really needs to do some major re-evaluating. They have only two riders signed past this season (Verona and Soler). They've said they want Mas and without Landa and Quintana they can pay him and then build a team around him with young riders. Let them grow together.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Landa gone, Quintana going, Valverde past his prime
Who is the next big rider for Movistar?

Rumours about them wanted to hire Mas.

Rumors are still that they are trying to hire Mas.

 

[HelloDolly]

Movistar on paper should be better than Astana considering they have Quintana ,Landa, Carapaz,Soler ,Amador,Anacona and of course Valverde
Yet they never seem to win like Astana can
Maybe too reliant on one leader for too long rather than the Astana approach with many race leaders
Alot of talent but few results

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Movistar on paper should be better than Astana considering they have Quintana ,Landa, Carapaz,Soler ,Amador,Anacona and of course Valverde
Yet they never seem to win like Astana can
Maybe too reliant on one leader for too long rather than the Astana approach with many race leaders
Alot of talent but few results

That said, Astana is far ahead of expectations this year.

 

[Koronin]

I think Movistar needs to do some major re evaluations of their entire roster this season. They only have 2 riders on the whole roster signed past this seas (Soler and Verona). So this would be a great time to do some evaluations and in some ways may time to basically start over and build a team around a young leader. Obviously Valverde will be there as long as he wants to, but as proven this year they must move away from relying soley on him. If they can sign Enric Mas that is who they need to rebuild the team around. With Valverde, if Erviti wants to stay, you keep him specifically for Valverde.

 

[Red Rick]

If Movistar keeps going like this I wonder why Mas would want to go there

 

[Koronin]

Re:

If Movistar keeps going like this I wonder why Mas would want to go there

Don't know, but there are major rumors Mas is headed to Movistar. With his age, it's likely if he goes and stays he would become the next leader of Movistar. He's a good 15 years younger than Valverde. As I said, IF they are smart they bring him in and build a team around him.

 

[HelloDolly]

I forgot Betancur ..maybe he can still have a Tiger Woods type come back and lead Movistar to their golden years
I mean who would have thought Fuglsang is having his best year at 34 and almost beating the wonder kid Alaphilippe

 

[josemoreira]

If Landa is really is on his way out, at least Movistar should really try to keep Quintana, unless he wants out. If he changes team and they hire Mas, they also need need better domestiques, like Luisle, Nieve,Bilbao, De la Cruz and also more roulers, which the teams lacks.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

If Landa is really is on his way out, at least Movistar should really try to keep Quintana, unless he wants out. If he changes team and they hire Mas, they also need need better domestiques, like Luisle, Nieve,Bilbao, De la Cruz and also more roulers, which the teams lacks.

I think when they didn't keep Nairo's brother after last year and the rumors have been Nairo wants out since 2017, it's likely he's leaving at the end of the year.

They definitely need better domestiques, but I think they also need to go young and do basically a complete rebuild.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

If Landa is really is on his way out, at least Movistar should really try to keep Quintana, unless he wants out. If he changes team and they hire Mas, they also need need better domestiques, like Luisle, Nieve,Bilbao, De la Cruz and also more roulers, which the teams lacks.

I think when they didn't keep Nairo's brother after last year and the rumors have been Nairo wants out since 2017, it's likely he's leaving at the end of the year.

They definitely need better domestiques, but I think they also need to go young and do basically a complete rebuild.

Change of team wouldn't hurt Quintana but the team itself seems to be in transition. Bringing in Mas would make sense if they can attract some good quality domestiques. With Landa gone, and Valverde gone soon and maybe Quintana it will basically be a new team at least with the leaders. A good classics rider wouldn't hurt them either as Valverde is not long for retirement.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I have no clue to what Quintana would want to achieve anywhere else than Movistar. Landa is likely moving, Valverde is declining (and even when he wasn't he was always supporting him), so there's no threats. He has always been very well supported in pretty much all races he has done. Its partly a latin american team, everyone speaks spanish etc. etc. I don't get it, except its about the dolarés and he want to cash in some oil millions he can't get on Movistar.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

If Movistar keeps going like this I wonder why Mas would want to go there

Don't know, but there are major rumors Mas is headed to Movistar. With his age, it's likely if he goes and stays he would become the next leader of Movistar. He's a good 15 years younger than Valverde. As I said, IF they are smart they bring him in and build a team around him.

You don't see the attraction? Mas is riding for a team which will always, always focus on the Classics. Lefévère has a long, long history of talking game and providing zilch regards to Grand Tours and long stage races. So while Mas may get leadership there, support for Grand Tour bids may be hamstrung by a budget which focuses on the Classic men, because Alaphilippe, Gilbert, Štybar and Viviani won't come cheap. Further to that, they now have Jakobsen and Evenepoel to target going forward too. Mas may well be the undisputed stage race leader there, but he may also worry about the fact that he may be stuck in the same kind of position as Cadel Evans was at Lotto, with the team having competing goals.

The other thing is that, of course, the last GT won by the Quick Step lineage was Marco Pantani's Tour, over 20 years ago. Their podiums in GTs since then total as follows:
- Pavel Tonkov, 3rd, 2000 Vuelta a España
- Rigoberto Urán, 2nd, 2014 Giro d'Italia
- Enric Mas, 2nd, 2018 Vuelta a España

That's right, in over 20 years, despite a succession of high profile purchases, attempted signings and a project to turn Stijn Devolder into a GC man, that's the sum total.

Now, Movistar have been racing pretty daftly of late, and not maximising their results, sure. But if Landa's on the out, and with Valverde saying he'll retire after 2020, the door is very much open for Mas to make Abarcá his team. And while he may be in a similar kind of position at Movistar to at Quick Step, there can be no denying that Abarcá are much, much more successful in nurturing stage racers and producing results in the GTs, because their focus has always been on the stage racing side of the sport, as is common in Spain. It's not just about being the team of one or two stars - there is a long and impressive lineage of stage racers at Movistar, and of course you have the other factor that it is the big Spanish team and there's probably a lot of pressure to have big Spanish stars at the team - why else do you think they moved for Cobo again in 2012, when he'd already had an absolute disaster with the team in 2010, where he was unhappy and unmotivated, and the team gave up on him midseason too. With Valverde soon to retire, his main challenger for the Spanish heart of the team will be Soler, who's a pretty diesel-type climber so they likely won't tread on each others' toes that much. Here's the comparable list of Movistar's GT podiums since the last time a Mapei/QuickStep rider won a GT:
- Abraham Olano, 1st, 1998 Vuelta a España
- José María Jiménez, 3rd, 1998 Vuelta a España
- Alex Zülle, 2nd, 1999 Tour de France
- Unai Osa, 3rd, 2001 Giro d'Italia
- Francisco Mancebo, 3rd, 2004 Vuelta a España
- Óscar Pereiro, 1st, 2006 Tour de France
- Alejandro Valverde, 2nd, 2006 Vuelta a España
- Alejandro Valverde, 1st, 2009 Vuelta a España
- David Arroyo, 2nd, 2010 Giro d'Italia
- Alejandro Valverde, 2nd, 2012 Vuelta a España
- Nairo Quintana, 2nd, 2013 Tour de France
- Alejandro Valverde, 3rd, 2013 Vuelta a España
- Nairo Quintana, 1st, 2014 Giro d'Italia
- Alejandro Valverde, 3rd, 2014 Vuelta a España
- Nairo Quintana, 2nd, 2015 Tour de France
- Alejandro Valverde, 3rd, 2015 Tour de France
- Alejandro Valverde, 3rd, 2016 Giro d'Italia
- Nairo Quintana, 3rd, 2016 Tour de France
- Nairo Quintana, 1st, 2016 Vuelta a España
- Nairo Quintana, 2nd, 2017 Giro d'Italia

Let's remember that they've also had some near misses with the likes of Amador and Carapaz as well, and you can see that there's much more of a history of strong GT races here, including manufacturing some strong GC races out of seemingly unexpected places - Pereiro's Tour win, Arroyo's Giro podium.

The problem for Movistar is that their excitement to pick up Landa while still keeping Valverde and Quintana cost them dearly in that they had been, because of the quality of their two leaders, punching well above their weight in terms of the budget to results ratio, compared to teams like Sky and BMC which were the super-budget teams; their pursuit of Landa came at the price of a number of the key names in their mid-hierarchy and a lot of experienced helpers - they lost Castroviejo, the Izagirre brothers and the Herrada brothers, plus some of their key flat domestiques like Sutherland and to a lesser extent Dowsett, leaving the team very top heavy and their leaders much more exposed. They also lost one of their upcoming prospects to the naughty step with Rosón's suspension. If Quintana and Landa really are both going, that's going to leave a huge gap in the budget that means they can rebuild and bring in some strong domestiques like those mentioned. People like Bilbao and Fraile are realistic targets, and Lluís Más. If they can get one of Fernando Barceló, Sérgio Samitier or Óscar Rodríguez to complement the climbing core for the future, then that will help, plus you do have Unzué's thing for picking up riders he's already had in the past - so don't be surprised to see them moving for people like the Herradas and Luís León Sánchez going forward. Even Rui Costa wouldn't surprise me at this stage; he's comparatively declining, still got a couple of years in him and the way he's been determined to turn himself into a stage race climber, he'd suit a superdom role if he could put his pride aside. They could also bring Capecchi back to keep Mas company.

It's not as crazy a move as you might think.