Team Sky. The all clean team!

[Animal]

Of course being a brit I like Wiggins. And I'm happy about Brailsford's success with the track team.

But after so many years of idols with feet of clay (Pantani was a hero of mine when I started riding. Zulle too. I yelled for Armstrong on the roads of France in the 2000 and 2003 Tours de France. I've been fooled many times now), I reserve judgement.

And now what do you get if you read between the lines of the following statement?

"It's not for me to judge [us against] other teams, it's how we work that will make the difference," said Brailford. "The key thing for us is to make sure that everything's right [for the best performance] and that we give ownership to the riders]

from http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-launched-in-london

What I get is "Do whatever it takes. But be very careful. If you're caught, you're on your own".

It's a sad state of affairs when this is the first thing that springs to mind.

 

[Bobby700c]

Maybe that is his attitude towards doping, maybe not, but I don't think that's what he's talking about here. It's hard to imagine that Brailsford would tell the press at the team lauch (or on any other occasion, for that matter) that he doesn't care what the riders are taking as long as he doesn't know! I would guess he's talking about having a good environment within the team to allow the riders to develop, but ultimately it's up to them - treating them like human athletes rather than expendable items, as appears to be the case both now and in the past with pro cycling teams. That's my take on it.

 

[Race Radio]

To be fair most teams have implemented a plausible deniability strategy for a while, it would not be unique to SKY

 

[Animal]

I want to believe!

I just don't know if I can any more.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

Team Sky is the new CSC/Saxo Bank.

 

[Animal]

So the level of enjoyment we can wring out of the sport is "well, they're just doing what everyone else is so it's a level playing field"?

 

[Winterfold]

As another Brit I want to believe too.

But then I would not be surprised by any rider testing positive.

I read it as, DB will do every single minute thing he can towards winning clean and has the money and an ethical medical team to back that up, so if you go off piste and you're caught you're on your own.

But when the Head of that Medical Team says they know nothing much about cycling, and you look at how streetwise some of the DS are, er, probably, then there is a fair bit of 'margin for error' there...

The other thing is if they do it, then they will be impossible to catch.

 

[craig1985]

I believe SKY have hired doctors that have never worked with a Pro team, does that make much of a difference?

 

[Anonymous]

I want to believe!

I just don't know if I can any more.

My 9 year old feels the same way about Santa.

 

[BroDeal]

What I get is "Do whatever it takes. But be very careful. If you're caught, you're on your own".

OT, but this reminds me that Carmichael Training Systems is advertising using the line, "Do what it takes." Now that is ballsy to put Carmichael's true philosophy out there like that. It's freakin. hilarious, like Tiger Woods appearing in advertsing with the tagline, "Get some on the side."

Looks like Brailsford is being careful not to rock the boat by bringing up the doping that other teams/riders are obviously doing. As to what he means by it, who knows? Maybe he just does not want to make more enemies than the team has alreadymade with the various rider contract hijinks. This is a team that cannot afford to have even more teams looking to take a pound of flesh out of them on the road.

 

[Mambo95]

Of course being a brit I like Wiggins. And I'm happy about Brailsford's success with the track team.

But after so many years of idols with feet of clay (Pantani was a hero of mine when I started riding. Zulle too. I yelled for Armstrong on the roads of France in the 2000 and 2003 Tours de France. I've been fooled many times now), I reserve judgement.

And now what do you get if you read between the lines of the following statement?

Originally Posted by Brailsford
"It's not for me to judge [us against] other teams, it's how we work that will make the difference," said Brailford. "The key thing for us is to make sure that everything's right [for the best performance] and that we give ownership to the riders; that they have control over what they do. We treat them with great dignity and respect, and give them the opportunity to be the best they can be."

from http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-launched-in-london

What I get is "Do whatever it takes. But be very careful. If you're caught, you're on your own".

It's a sad state of affairs when this is the first thing that springs to mind.

If you want to know what it actually means, rather than what you want it to mean, then read either Wiggins's book or Richard Moore's one about Chris Hoy et al (can't remember which one, might be both).

It explains it quite well. What it means is, rather than a DS or coach dictating training schedules and race programs, once specific targets have been agreed on, the rider himself draws up a draft schedule and program which is then revised by the team directors and coaches.

This extends to smaller decisions, with discussions being lead by the rider's input rather than dicatated by the DS. Thereby the riders feel 'ownership' of the descisions being made, rather than being treated like slaves.

Nothing to do with doping whatsoever.

 

[Galic Ho]

Team Sky is the new CSC/Saxo Bank.

Bingo.

Animal, you're about two months late. I brought this up in a thread when it arose at the time. The statement reveals more than most people believe. Brailsford is stating the riders will be supported 'medically' to any degree they wish. Look at the language. The paragraph Animal highlighted stood out, especially when compared to not just the remainder of Brailsford's comments but other Team Sky media releases. This was a special case and when laid next to Wiggins comments (he was not signed to Sky at the time but I said he soon would be) after the Tour, the only suggestion a knowledgeable follower of the true undertakings and machinations of Pro Cycling could conclude, is that this is about doping.

Sky are saying, "We'll help, but if you get caught, too bad, you're on your own." Hence why I said Brailsford is a unique type of scum. Other teams encourage their riders, but still stick by them up until the hottest blow torch is applied. He has indicated as much by his numerous statements and I feel sorry for anyone who gets caught on that team, as I believe the writing was on the wall months ago. Maybe I should pity their intellects.

This notion was not revealed by this one section of a press conference. All the Sky releases have been revealing. The highlighted section is the most revealing on its own, but acts as the reinforcement solidifying all the prior off key statements. End of story, if you believe in this team and get burnt, the joke is on you. Sky are nothing special or unique. Though the bikes and kits look good.

As I said previously, the most telling story will be if Wiggins gets nabbed, what will his old team, the "cleanest in the peloton" Garmin say. What will JV say. Wiggins caught cheating will be far more revealing of the true psyche of cycling than say LA. LA is fooling none of the realists and critical thinkers. We know. He knows we know that he is not who he claims. He even came back to dig a bigger hole of shame. Think of the public and pelotons reaction in each case? The peloton's is more revealing, because they are in the know. LA caught, well parts of the public are shocked, some are severely hurt and damaged, but only the naive didn't see the writing on the wall (or they did and concocted their own fantasy to dispel reality). Amongst the 24/7 fans, a lot don't see the writing on the wall for Wiggins or Sky. Nobody amongst the peloton has questioned Wiggo or Sky. I hope they slip up, not to vindicate my beliefs, but to reveal the truth. To help kill the cancer.

 

[bobbins]

Scott Sunderland was a member of the TVM team that had a spot of bother and Sean Yates had a positive test in the Tour of Belgium and worked for many years inside the Armstrong machine so they shouyld know a thing or 2 about covering up or be completely oblivious to the obvious.

The UK track team is one thing, this new team seems to be run like a company with all this bull**** worker ants and inner chimps but at the end of the day the riders are expected to win or they will be out. DB doesn't respect the law of contracts and this kind of atmosphere breeds problems where riders will be out for each other and we all know a way to gain a simple edge don't we?

 

[Animal]

Thing is, the general BBC audience don't know any of this.

It's all "whoopee, a team of all-conquering brits set to win The Tour". Unlike continental Europe, the general pubic know the square root of fuck all about cycling.

It will end in tears. And 3 week Wiggo fans incapable of seeing the dirty underside.

 

[python]

I AM AMBIGUOUS ABOUT THE STATEMENT BY db. im willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt though some of the actions and statements by db keep me concerned. he is very aggressive and one can only wonder wheres his red line. his outspokenness is refreshing still i wonder if he thinks through all his statements.

for now i am excited to see wiggins on the british team and aim willing to attribute the ambiguity to reading to much into dbs statements.

 

[Winterfold]

At my most cynical even if they do do it I just cant see one of them getting popped. Sky have some big objectives about loads and loads more cyclists in the UK, the future Prime Minister (sponsored by Murdoch) and Mayor of London are keen cyclists and will be loving that, Sky moving into this is about news, politics, how sport is financed and run.

And if it means I dont get spat on, or am less likely to be run into the verge when riding, hurray for Sky.

 

[craig1985]

Scott Sunderland was a member of the TVM team that had a spot of bother and Sean Yates had a positive test in the Tour of Belgium and worked for many years inside the Armstrong machine so they shouyld know a thing or 2 about covering up or be completely oblivious to the obvious.

The UK track team is one thing, this new team seems to be run like a company with all this bull**** worker ants and inner chimps but at the end of the day the riders are expected to win or they will be out. DB doesn't respect the law of contracts and this kind of atmosphere breeds problems where riders will be out for each other and we all know a way to gain a simple edge don't we?

They have three doctors on board the team to which none apparently have never worked with pro cycling team. I guess the idea is that they have the knowledge of doping practices in a team. Unlike what the Hog did at USPS and bring over a few doctors from ONCE. There is an interview with one of their docs in the January issue of PCM.

As for DB and breaking contracts, how many sports people respect their contracts? How many soccer players respect the contract they signed? Katusha are gulity of the exact same thing when they signed Kolobnev from Saxo Bank and he had a year left on his contract.

 

[Ferminal]

Bingo.

Animal, you're about two months late. I brought this up in a thread when it arose at the time. The statement reveals more than most people believe. Brailsford is stating the riders will be supported 'medically' to any degree they wish. Look at the language. The paragraph Animal highlighted stood out, especially when compared to not just the remainder of Brailsford's comments but other Team Sky media releases. This was a special case and when laid next to Wiggins comments (he was not signed to Sky at the time but I said he soon would be) after the Tour, the only suggestion a knowledgeable follower of the true undertakings and machinations of Pro Cycling could conclude, is that this is about doping.

Sky are saying, "We'll help, but if you get caught, too bad, you're on your own." Hence why I said Brailsford is a unique type of scum. Other teams encourage their riders, but still stick by them up until the hottest blow torch is applied. He has indicated as much by his numerous statements and I feel sorry for anyone who gets caught on that team, as I believe the writing was on the wall months ago. Maybe I should pity their intellects.

This notion was not revealed by this one section of a press conference. All the Sky releases have been revealing. The highlighted section is the most revealing on its own, but acts as the reinforcement solidifying all the prior off key statements. End of story, if you believe in this team and get burnt, the joke is on you. Sky are nothing special or unique. Though the bikes and kits look good.

As I said previously, the most telling story will be if Wiggins gets nabbed, what will his old team, the "cleanest in the peloton" Garmin say. What will JV say. Wiggins caught cheating will be far more revealing of the true psyche of cycling than say LA. LA is fooling none of the realists and critical thinkers. We know. He knows we know that he is not who he claims. He even came back to dig a bigger hole of shame. Think of the public and pelotons reaction in each case? The peloton's is more revealing, because they are in the know. LA caught, well parts of the public are shocked, some are severely hurt and damaged, but only the naive didn't see the writing on the wall (or they did and concocted their own fantasy to dispel reality). Amongst the 24/7 fans, a lot don't see the writing on the wall for Wiggins or Sky. Nobody amongst the peloton has questioned Wiggo or Sky. I hope they slip up, not to vindicate my beliefs, but to reveal the truth. To help kill the cancer.

Any chance of Wiggins doing an Armstrong 1999?

Wigan to Man U is quite a leap.

Sky are bringing good money into the sport, so until they start dominating every race I'm not going to be overly critical.

 

[Timeless]

Bingo.

Animal, you're about two months late. I brought this up in a thread when it arose at the time. The statement reveals more than most people believe. Brailsford is stating the riders will be supported 'medically' to any degree they wish. Look at the language. The paragraph Animal highlighted stood out, especially when compared to not just the remainder of Brailsford's comments but other Team Sky media releases. This was a special case and when laid next to Wiggins comments (he was not signed to Sky at the time but I said he soon would be) after the Tour, the only suggestion a knowledgeable follower of the true undertakings and machinations of Pro Cycling could conclude, is that this is about doping.

Sky are saying, "We'll help, but if you get caught, too bad, you're on your own." Hence why I said Brailsford is a unique type of scum. Other teams encourage their riders, but still stick by them up until the hottest blow torch is applied. He has indicated as much by his numerous statements and I feel sorry for anyone who gets caught on that team, as I believe the writing was on the wall months ago. Maybe I should pity their intellects.

This notion was not revealed by this one section of a press conference. All the Sky releases have been revealing. The highlighted section is the most revealing on its own, but acts as the reinforcement solidifying all the prior off key statements. End of story, if you believe in this team and get burnt, the joke is on you.

This reads like a crazy conspiracy theory. I don't necessarily believe that Sky is cleaner than any other team. Part of me is optimistic enough to want to believe, but another part is cynical enough to know that we've heard similar stories before and been taken for fools. So I will just observe with interest and see how it pans out.

But one thing I am sure of is that you cannot read hidden messages into this press statement. DB is not saying that his riders will get all the "medical assistance" they need but then get dropped if caught. What sort of idiot goes to a press conference and makes veiled hints about doping strategy? He does not need to talk about doping strategy and so any attempts to read a hidden subtext into this are pure fantasy.

He has a story of why Sky are different and that is what he was talking about. His story does not involve doping.

Whether his story is the truth is an entirely separate issue.

 

[Galic Ho]

Any chance of Wiggins doing an Armstrong 1999?

Wigan to Man U is quite a leap.

Sky are bringing good money into the sport, so until they start dominating every race I'm not going to be overly critical.

Man Utd lost an FA Cup match to Leeds. A second division team. Anything is possible. But given the amount of tongue flapping both Brailsford and Wiggins have been doing (too much to just be company advertising) the only people who will be fooled will be the BBC viewers Animal mentioned.

I do enjoy Brailsford's pieces. He is very blunt and forthcoming. Makes him a lot easier to read than others. Be good to see what EBH can do this year with a little support. As I mentioned, I hope the leaders recognise the team is not just Wiggins and tell him to pull for EBH, Gerrans, Loqkvist early in the season. It will pay dividends come July. Plus it will be good to see how they perform. Nothing too flashy was the general impression in the forum poll last year.

 

[Anonymous]

clean.. who knows..? Theyve got more bike pure members i beleive than any other pro tour team, for what that means.. John Lee Augustyn, Froome, Russ DOwning, Steve Cummings (interestingly 3 former barloworld riders).. i expect a couple more may join up..

I think everyone is cycnical, throughout cycling.. but you can read to much into things.. one thing to bear in mind, team sky is being run like no other team ever has.. the week in manchester they spend doing dietary lessons, phsyco head babble and all that stuff, they each got given a laptop, they are very different.

personally i think the way they have involved the british public, there is simply too much to lose if there was a scandal..

but of course i dont count out anything..

 

[thehog]

To be fair Sky wanted to hire DiLuca before he got pinged and once they saw his blood profie they said "no thanks".

 

[mektronic]

Are you sure it was DiLuca he was referring to?

 

[Ferminal]

Are you sure it was DiLuca he was referring to?

M

I thought people thought it was Contador he was referring to?

 

[Clemson Cycling]

clean.. who knows..? Theyve got more bike pure members i beleive than any other pro tour team, for what that means.. John Lee Augustyn, Froome, Russ DOwning, Steve Cummings (interestingly 3 former barloworld riders).. i expect a couple more may join up..

What are you talking about?