Team Sky. The all clean team!

[bianchigirl]

The British public won't give a toss about Team Sky until they win the TdF - they're simply not interested in some 1 week Tour round the hinterland of Spain or a Classic (what?). There's only an emotional investment in the track team because they've been successful - and that didn't happen overnight. A doping scandal won't make any difference and, since the whole ethos of the team is that 'the riders take ownership' any doping scandal can be blamed squarely on the rider not the team or management. If the alarm bells weren't set ringing by Rob Hayles hct and Wiggins wonky values from 2009 then they never will be for some.

Dimspace, I agree that change needs to happen but giving every rider a laptop means eff all in respect of cleaning up the sport. A transparent in team testing programme to augment and exceed the laughable biological passport might do the trick but gadgets and self esteem raising workshops? I really don't see the 'clean' in that, just a lot of corporate ********. And how much of the £35 million start up has gone on a commitment to 'clean cycling' would you say? Plenty on macs and iphones and F1 technology but the anti doping budget...?

 

[BigBoat]

I want to believe!

I just don't know if I can any more.

Their so CLEAN!...Their laundry detergent even smells good, and the teeth whitner. BELIEVE!

 

[blackcat]

I don't know what to make of Taylor Phinney. There's the Armstrong connection, and I'm sure his father isn't ignorant of what goes on. It's a shame to damn someone by association, but...

I guess, like Sky, all we can do is give him the benefit of the doubt until somethings strongly suggests/proves otherwise.

I was not insinuating Phinney was a'charging. I was alleging, that one cannot be pal'ing around Austin and then sport a "Doperz suk!" hat. There is a manifest contradiction.

 

[pmcg76]

Sky get hammered because Brailsford has sold Sky on back of GB Cycling.

Fans and fanbois alike, conflate Sky and GB.

GB track team, sold as clean. I doubt anyone on the Olympics team for GB were clean. But not to excoriate one group or nationality, they were only doing what you gotta do, and none tested positive, so they keep their medals and endorsements with a big smile.

Wiggo was not clean at the Tour, but I don't think he was on a program as comprehensive as Contador and StrongArm, nor Andy Schleck.

Sky should be accountable, as DB has issue much spin and high rhetoric about ethics, which frankly is a bunch of BS.

Sky are only stepping their foot into the world of cycling, and doping comes with the territory, no specific indictment as is.

You doubt anyone was clean and what is your basis for that claim, what proof is there? They won!!!

What wasnt on the Wiggins programme that was on the others programme, what products exactly and how the hell was he anywhere near these guys if he was on a lesser programme? Would he have won if hew doing the same as the other guys because it sounds like that!!

Sky should be accountable?? To who and how would they be accountable.

Once again, the usual BS but no hard facts, evidence or propsals. SSDD.

I am not a fan of either Wiggins or Sky or GB cycling(We Irish are not exactly fans of the Brits) at all and I am not saying they are definitely 100% clean but will wait until I see the evidence first. As I said if you dont have anything to go on, they maybe you should just STFU.

 

[Anonymous]

I was not insinuating Phinney was a'charging. I was alleging, that one cannot be pal'ing around Austin and then sport a "Doperz suk!" hat. There is a manifest contradiction.

Oh yeah, I know, I was just following on your mention of him with some thoughts I've been having since he became best buds with LA.

 

[blackcat]

You doubt anyone was clean and what is your basis for that claim, what proof is there? They won!!!

What wasnt on the Wiggins programme that was on the others programme, what products exactly and how the hell was he anywhere near these guys if he was on a lesser programme? Would he have won if hew doing the same as the other guys because it sounds like that!!

Sky should be accountable?? To who and how would they be accountable.

Once again, the usual BS but no hard facts, evidence or propsals. SSDD.

I am not a fan of either Wiggins or Sky or GB cycling(We Irish are not exactly fans of the Brits) at all and I am not saying they are definitely 100% clean but will wait until I see the evidence first. As I said if you dont have anything to go on, they maybe you should just STFU.

I dont reckon wiggins got the insulin recovery treatment, nor blood bag top ups. I reckon he came in over-capacity.

Hence, his final chrono.

Watch him fly in the final chrono this year.

 

[Anonymous]

The British public won't give a toss about Team Sky until they win the TdF - they're simply not interested in some 1 week Tour round the hinterland of Spain or a Classic (what?).

Ok.. hang on.. please give the british cycling fans a little more credit.

Yes there are a large amount of new fans that are now coming to the sport in britain because they have heard of Brad Wiggins and the Tour de France.. And that frankly is brilliant.. If they come to the sport because of it, then it is our job to encourage them to learn more about the classics, the other short tours, rather than act all high and mighty over them and pass them off as not being worthy as fans..

Then there are the real cycling fans in britain. The tour prologue was probably one of the best ever. The tour series draw huge crowds all over britain, and britain as a country has one of the best range of local clubs, competitions anywhere. You wont find a major city without a cycling club, so dont assume that we are all unknowledgeable idiots who know nothing except for three weeks in July.

Watch the classics and look out for union jacks.. They are everywhere.

Sorry, I take extreme offence to your shear patronism of the british public. give us a little credit.

Plenty on macs and iphones and F1 technology but the anti doping budget...?

ah, or should that read how much has been spent on the doping budget..?

 

[pmcg76]

I dont reckon wiggins got the insulin recovery treatment, nor blood bag top ups. I reckon he came in over-capacity.

Hence, his final chrono.

Watch him fly in the final chrono this year.

Why not?

And what about my question about the lack of French teams having doping related controversies?

 

[Race Radio]

Totally agree with you on this Dim. Sky have not even started and they are being hammered about doping and well I just dont get it. You really wonder what they are supposed to say. Maybe the cynical guys can tell us what they want to hear or see from a new team.

I think most people would know I am not oblivious to what is going on in regards to doping but I really hate this whole everybody is doing it without fail or the minute anybody does anything, they are doping big time. I have had debates before on this subject and the cynicism is unreal.

The French teams have hardly had any doping controversies over the last decade with the exception of Cofidis. With the rate people have been busted over the last decade, surely some guys from teams like Boguyes Telecom/ Lfdjeux should have been caught if they were up to something or is it possible that the smaller funded teams have better doping programmes than the big guys or maybe its a conspiracy protecting the French teams.

I will address and question the trolls or uninformed when they make silly claims about people not doping so I will do it for the cynics also, BroDeal, Race Radio, Hugh Anus and whoever else. Why have no guys from Boguyes/Lfdjeux been busted if they are all doping? On the flipside, if they are clean and capable of winning stages and placing riders close to the Top 10 in the Tour, why can other riders or teams not do the same cleanly?

And dont give me this crap about doping less in a generalised manner, I want to know what they would be doing to get them decent rides on lesser doping and what are they taking that is not detectable. What products and how would it be possible for them to come anywhere near the guys on the big programmes. If you guys cannot give direct straight up answers, then maybe you all should give it a rest. Answers please?

Nice strawman, you even added in the "righteous indignation" tone. impressive

Please show me one of my posts where I have said they are all doping. In fact have often written the exact opposite, that the peloton as a whole is much cleaner then it was.

I must have missed all of these French riders riding away from the group on the long climbs and standing on the podium, could you point them out for me?

 

[blackcat]

Why not?

And what about my question about the lack of French teams having doping related controversies?

the French dope. They just dont have big programs. And the ASO will not want another '98.

Wiggo was still under the supervision of JV. Garmin were still running a tight'ish ship. Their A team were charging, but within allowed parameters.

 

[workingclasshero]

I must have missed all of these French riders riding away from the group on the long climbs and standing on the podium, could you point them out for me?

rr what's the score on hushovd, he's always been a strong rider but seemed better than ever last season (green jersey at the tour, stage win, 3rd in paris-robauix (sp) even though he crashed). i've always thought of him as clean.

he also started being best mates with armstrong and defending him in the media when the pharm one's blood values were questioned, talking like a doper ("lance has never tested positive, blahblahblah).

 

[pmcg76]

Nice strawman, you even added in the "righteous indignation" tone. impressive

Please show me one of my posts where I have said they are all doping. In fact have often written the exact opposite, that the peloton as a whole is much cleaner then it was.

I must have missed all of these French riders riding away from the group on the long climbs and standing on the podium, could you point them out for me?

Well apologies if I wrongly included you in with the others but then again where did I say the French were winning loads of races and standing on podiums?

 

[bianchigirl]

dim, I'm British, a 'real' cycling fan, was at the prologue in London, have done the Classics (though never with a Union Jack/Cross of St George - not my style) etc etc etc. Sure there are hard core fans as there are in all countries but the great majority don't give a ****e unless there's a victory - take a straw poll in your office or pub or wherever and you'll notice you're not exactly tripping over those 'real' fans. The UK flags hardly outnumber the Flandrian flags at RvV now, do they? The excitement over Team Sky will wane as soon as it becomes clear that Wiggins won't deliver the TdF win anytime soon. Now, if they spin that as a triumph for 'clean' cycling over the dirty Euro (and US) dopers that might be interesting. But I'm not hearing Brailsford saying anything about a real committment to clean cycling - a lot of lip service, a lot of corporate speak about chimps and ants and so on, a lot of stuff about making anything and everything work to their advantage (remember, it aint illegal if you don't get busted) and nothing about anti doping - even Wiggins has backed down from his once overtly anti doping stance - anything to do with those blood values that don't quite add up?

Sorry but I can't get all excited about a team backed by Murdoch - too much opportunity for corruption and leading by example.

As I say, talk to the casual fan who got interested because of the track team - think you'll find they're like the LA fans, all over it when success happens but off the bandwagon as soon as the gold (or in this case the Maillot Jaune) doesn't come their way.

 

[pmcg76]

the French dope. They just dont have big programs. And the ASO will not want another '98.

Wiggo was still under the supervision of JV. Garmin were still running a tight'ish ship. Their A team were charging, but within allowed parameters.

So what products are capable of remaining undetected over a ten year period but enables riders to win stages at the Tour or place in and around the top 10, and you believe there is a conspiracy by the ASO to protect the French but they didnt protect Cofidis!!! Interesting.

So Wiggo doped on his own but Garmin are doping anyway, just not to a big level. And the Garmin A team, whom are?

 

[Race Radio]

rr what's the score on hushovd, he's always been a strong rider but seemed better than ever last season (green jersey at the tour, stage win, 3rd in paris-robauix (sp) even though he crashed). i've always thought of him as clean.

he also started being best mates with armstrong and defending him in the media when the pharm one's blood values were questioned, talking like a doper ("lance has never tested positive, blahblahblah).

I have never heard anything negative about Thor. He rode most of his career at CA, which most would say was one of the cleaner teams during a dirty period. He lives in the South of France, not Spain. While they may have trained a few days together he and Armstrong are far from best buddies (Armstrong does not have friends, he has employee's). You will find that most riders will seldom question th myth, they all need jobs.

I would not say he had a huge year. I have always thought that Thor was made for PR so I was not surprised when he did well this year. He won the green jersey more with tactical smarts then with an overwhelming physical performance.

I would like to think he is clean. He certainly is not like other riders who suddenly can climb, work with doping doctors, and have strange blood profiles. Of course I may be biased. I know the guys at Cervelo and think very highly of them. My opinion can be bought with a free bike.

 

[Race Radio]

Well apologies if I wrongly included you in with the others but then again where did I say the French were winning loads of races and standing on podiums?

Your position was pretty clear "if they are all doping how are the French competitive?" I did not see any outstanding performances from the French climbers this year. It is good to see their top rider crack the top 15 instead of barely make the top 30 but this is not huge.

The Tour is not the only race of the year, but it does have the tightest controls. When was the last time a French climber lit it up in the Giro or the Vuelta? Fignon? Hinualt?

 

[Race Radio]

So what products are capable of remaining undetected over a ten year period but enables riders to win stages at the Tour or place in and around the top 10

 

[Anonymous]

dim, I'm British, a 'real' cycling fan, was at the prologue in London, have done the Classics (though never with a Union Jack/Cross of St George - not my style) etc etc etc. Sure there are hard core fans as there are in all countries but the great majority don't give a ****e unless there's a victory - take a straw poll in your office or pub or wherever and you'll notice you're not exactly tripping over those 'real' fans. The UK flags hardly outnumber the Flandrian flags at RvV now, do they? The excitement over Team Sky will wane as soon as it becomes clear that Wiggins won't deliver the TdF win anytime soon. Now, if they spin that as a triumph for 'clean' cycling over the dirty Euro (and US) dopers that might be interesting. But I'm not hearing Brailsford saying anything about a real committment to clean cycling - a lot of lip service, a lot of corporate speak about chimps and ants and so on, a lot of stuff about making anything and everything work to their advantage (remember, it aint illegal if you don't get busted) and nothing about anti doping - even Wiggins has backed down from his once overtly anti doping stance - anything to do with those blood values that don't quite add up?

Sorry but I can't get all excited about a team backed by Murdoch - too much opportunity for corruption and leading by example.

As I say, talk to the casual fan who got interested because of the track team - think you'll find they're like the LA fans, all over it when success happens but off the bandwagon as soon as the gold (or in this case the Maillot Jaune) doesn't come their way.

straw poll amongst people ive worked with is that im nuts, and they dont see what all the fuss is about. they are more into beer and rugby.

Murdoch im torn on. On one hand as a liverpool fan I can never forgive the Sun for what they wrote about hillsborough, and will never read it. On the other hand I have seen the way that sky have revolutionised football coverage and brough huge amounts of money into it. Changed darts beyond recognition and turned it from a laughing stock into a massively popular sport. I have no doubt, that they are sponsoring sky team for commercial reasons, running skyrides in london to promote themselves. It will sell sky+ boxes (which incidentally are one of the greatest inventions in history) but if they can make cycling in this country popular then i am right behind them. What other company was willing to put that kind of money behind a cycling team.

Its always a no win. If sky hadnt come forward everyone would be moaning why do no british companies sponsor cycling. If they try and do it clean everyone says they cant.

As for wiggins, im still of the thought that someone who spends so much time drinking wine with his missus, going to gigs, has the time or the concentration to have a serious program, unless of course his twittering is all a con, and hes learnt from lance to trick the public.

 

[workingclasshero]

I have never heard anything negative about Thor. He rode most of his career at CA, which most would say was one of the cleaner teams during a dirty period. He lives in the South of France, not Spain. While they may have trained a few days together he and Armstrong are far from best buddies (Armstrong does not have friends, he has employee's). You will find that most riders will seldom question th myth, they all need jobs.

I would not say he had a huge year. I have always thought that Thor was made for PR so I was not surprised when he did well this year. He won the green jersey more with tactical smarts then with an overwhelming physical performance.

I would like to think he is clean. He certainly is not like other riders who suddenly can climb, work with doping doctors, and have strange blood profiles. Of course I may be biased. I know the guys at Cervelo and think very highly of them. My opinion can be bought with a free bike.

thanks that was what i was hoping to hear.

he had a big year for him i think, 2nd green jersey of his career and this time he won a stage too, didn't do that last time round, 2005 wasn't it. Also his best PR finish.

re armstrong: he did bring lance to norway for a crit raising cancer awareness, and it wasn't long after this the quotes about lance never having tested positive and him being a victim of a witchhunt came out. i didn't like the sound of those words that's what's made me think again really

 

[Anonymous]

My gut has always been that thor is clean.. Balls the size of small countries, but clean.. Much as I hate to admit it, that one day in the tour last year was brilliant..

 

[pmcg76]

Your position was pretty clear "if they are all doping how are the French competitive?" I did not see any outstanding performances from the French climbers this year. It is good to see their top rider crack the top 15 instead of barely make the top 30 but this is not huge.

The Tour is not the only race of the year, but it does have the tightest controls. When was the last time a French climber lit it up in the Giro or the Vuelta? Fignon? Hinualt?

Moncoutie, KOM 2008 Vuelta, winner Sierre Nevada stage this year.

Casar and LeMevel have both finished top 15 and guys like Voeckler, Fedrigo have won stages at the Tour, yes I know thats not right at the top level but my point was that according to some people, these people are not possible without being totally doped to the gills.

Yes blood doping, but no riders have ever been busted for any doping rings, how many other guys been caught or associated with blood doping this decade. A lot of the top guys have been caught. Find me a team that have not had a rider busted or associtaed with a doping ring and see what teams are left. Bogues & lfdjeux.

 

[Race Radio]

Moncoutie, KOM 2008 Vuelta, winner Sierre Nevada stage this year.

Casar and LeMevel have both finished top 15 and guys like Voeckler, Fedrigo have won stages at the Tour, yes I know thats not right at the top level but my point was that according to some people, these people are not possible without being totally doped to the gills.

Yes blood doping, but no riders have ever been busted for any doping rings, how many other guys been caught or associated with blood doping this decade. A lot of the top guys have been caught.

Moncoutie! of course. It was pretty cool to see him in the Vuelta. Too bad he is so hot and cold. I think that the fact that Moncoutie and riders like LeMevel can do well is a very good sign. To be clear, winning a sprint or Rolluer stage is not a sign of dope....riding Contador off your wheel up a climb is.

As for blood doping. I can only think of two riders who were suspended for using their own blood, Basso and Scarponi. There is a good reason why you seldom hear French names associated with Blood doping rings. The FFC has been running their version of the biopassport since 1999. All of the French riders have had Bio markers on file since they were 17.....of course this does not stop some from changing their Fed to avoid this level of testing,.

 

[BroDeal]

But if nobody ever tries to be different, and if none of us ever believe it can be different....

HOW THE **** IS IT EVER GOING TO BE DIFFERENT...

With all respect bro, you are almost like those you hate.. there is almost a forum omerta. A group of individuals stuck in the past who almost dont want things to change.

I think there are people here who probably know more about PED's and vo2, and autogulous blood thingies than they do about the actual sport..

You sound like a gullible sponge who sucks up everything and anything said by those you like and accepts it as gospel truth. Laptops? WTF!! Dietery advice? I bet no team ever thought of that. What do you think Garmin has been doing with their rice cakes, gluten, and changing Tommy D.'s diet the past few years?

I don't see anything new, which you keep touting in post after post. You want to see new then look at Garmin, which has been at the forefront of independent testing of riders, has their riders located in the same area, etc.

 

[poupou]

the French dope. They just dont have big programs. And the ASO will not want another '98.

Is ASO in charge of the dope testing? How could they act on the doping case in a country where such acts are a criminal offense punished by 5 jail time?

 

[Anonymous]

You sound like a gullible sponge who sucks up everything and anything said by those you like and accepts it as gospel truth. Laptops? WTF!! Dietery advice? I bet no team ever thought of that. What do you think Garmin has been doing with their rice cakes, gluten, and changing Tommy D.'s diet the past few years?

I don't see anything new, which you keep touting in post after post. You want to see new then look at Garmin, which has been at the forefront of independent testing of riders, has their riders located in the same area, etc.

And the trouble is garmin get the same flack.. JV came on here and immediately got hit by a torrent of doping threads and ******ed off again.

garmin and their independant testing? yet in the same thread everyone is discussing what brads program was for the tour. .

We gonne go round in circles.. guilty till proved innocent is cyclings motto.

So bro.. what is your dream for cycling, where would you like to see it go?