Team Visma LAB

[iceblink]

the peloton let Quintana go up the road at the start of the climb. Froome then obliterated the most talented rider of a generation off of his wheel with the most ridiculous seated acceleration anyone has ever seen.

Well, that you have ever seen apparently.

29 seconds over Quintana after the most expensive domestiques ever assembled pulled him up the mountain.

Wonder what you thought when Dumoulin caught Froome on the climb at Bergen 2017 in the Time Trial?

Yeah that's right a *** time trial and Dumoulin catches this apparently cheating climber Froome (who won Bronze), and dodgy Dumoulin (after missing nearly the whole season btw) won the Worlds TT by almost a minute on Roglic

No wonder Roglic started using the similar juice as Dumoulin afterwards (Obliterating him in Tokyo) and no wonder Dumoulin joined Jumbo...

(Obviously got shocked by whatever they were making him do above the previous stuff and retired from the sport altogether)

 

[zlev11]

Well, that you have ever seen apparently.

29 seconds over Quintana after the most expensive domestiques ever assembled pulled him up the mountain.

Wonder what you thought when Dumoulin caught Froome on the climb at Bergen 2017 in the Time Trial?

Yeah that's right a *** time trial and Dumoulin catches this apparently cheating climber Froome (who won Bronze), and dodgy Dumoulin (after missing nearly the whole season btw) won the Worlds TT by almost a minute on Roglic

No wonder Roglic started using the similar juice as Dumoulin afterwards (Obliterating him in Tokyo) and no wonder Dumoulin joined Jumbo...

(Obviously got shocked by whatever they were making him do above the previous stuff and retired from the sport altogether)

so anyone who wins and isn't British is doping then? got it.

 

[pastronef]

so anyone who wins and isn't British is doping then? got it.

not at all. Dumo transformed in skinny climber and beat Quintana. the Jumbo copied Sky and now they are Sky 2.0 (or even better, cause they also win one day races)

 

[SHAD0W93]

not at all. Dumo transformed in skinny climber and beat Quintana. the Jumbo copied Sky and now they are Sky 2.0 (or even better, cause they also win one day races)

Wouldn’t Jumbo be USPS/Discovery 3.0 since Sky was said to be the 2.0 version?

 

[pastronef]

Wouldn’t Jumbo be USPS/Discovery 3.0 since Sky was said to be the 2.0 version?

well, tbf Postal/Discovery used epo/transfusions, so I don't know how Sky and Jumbo could be called like that

 

[FroomeWagon]

Wouldn’t Jumbo be USPS/Discovery 3.0 since Sky was said to be the 2.0 version?

I think that is a very good comparison.

well, tbf Postal/Discovery used epo/transfusions, so I don't know how Sky and Jumbo could be called like that

We dont' know what either team was/is doing. Remember Sky had a "no needles" policy, which we found out later, was a lie. It wouldn't surprise me if they were microdosing EPO (or some substance similar) for most of their glory years.

 

[Netserk]

well, tbf Postal/Discovery used epo/transfusions, so I don't know how Sky and Jumbo could be called like that

Why would anyone stop using epo/transfusions? Contador didn't.

 

[FroomeWagon]

Wouldn’t Jumbo be USPS/Discovery 3.0 since Sky was said to be the 2.0 version?

I think that could be an appropriate way of thinking of it.

Lance with 7 straight TDF wins, Sky winning seven of eight in a row (with 4 different riders no less). Jumbo only has one right now though. We will see if Jumbo can get #2 this year, or if Pogachar can throw them off track. I would like to see Jumbo win a few more TDF before we officially call them Postal 3.0.

 

[ontheroad]

Although Roglic won the Giro, JV as a team weren’t particularly strong overall in the mountains. Sepp Kuss was his usual consistent self as number 1 dom for Roglic but the others either werent required to ride on the front or got quickly dropped when De Plus and Arensman upped the tempo. Roglic basically won the Giro by mostly following wheels in the high mountains and then producing a huge mountain TT performance of his own on the penultimate day.

Ive a feeling UAE will be much better prepared for this years tour after Pog was almost left trying to carry the fight to them single handedly at times during last years tour. So Jumbo will need to up their game for this years tour and their team selection will be interesting. Will Roglic or Kuss go in support of Vingegaard?

 

[FroomeWagon]

Although Roglic won the Giro, JV as a team weren’t particularly strong overall in the mountains. Sepp Kuss was his usual consistent self as number 1 dom for Roglic but the others either werent required to ride on the front or got quickly dropped when De Plus and Arensman upped the tempo. Roglic basically won the Giro by mostly following wheels in the high mountains and then producing a huge mountain TT performance of his own on the penultimate day.

Ive a feeling UAE will be much better prepared for this years tour after Pog was almost left trying to carry the fight to them single handedly at times during last years tour. So Jumbo will need to up their game for this years tour and their team selection will be interesting. Will Roglic or Kuss go in support of Vingegaard?

Hard to say much about the overall Jumbo team in this years Giro as they lost 5 team members (Emden, Gesink and Foss were all ruled out due to Covid-19 and Kelderman and Tratnik suffered injuries) prior to the race starting. Furthermore, I believe one of the replacements didn't arrive in Italy until after midnight the day that the race started. Not only was that not Jumbo's A team, it wasn't their B team either.

 

[SHAD0W93]

well, tbf Postal/Discovery used epo/transfusions, so I don't know how Sky and Jumbo could be called like that

If Armstrong never unretired, you’d be saying the same thing about Postal right now.

 

[iceblink]

Hard to say much about the overall Jumbo team in this years Giro as they lost 5 team members (Emden, Gesink and Foss were all ruled out due to Covid-19 and Kelderman and Tratnik suffered injuries) prior to the race starting. Furthermore, I believe one of the replacements didn't arrive in Italy until after midnight the day that the race started. Not only was that not Jumbo's A team, it wasn't their B team either.

Yeah it's amazing that shambolic bunch were able to ride so strong up the mountains in the last week that Roglic could barely keep up. And don't forget that Ineos lost more important riders than Jumbo at this Giro.

(Like UAE the Jumbo team has minimal impact on the performance of their juiced up GC contender)

 

[pastronef]

If Armstrong never unretired, you’d be saying the same thing about Postal right now.

that's how antidoping works. you or your former team mates test positive/confess and sanctions come up. it was confirmed Armstrong bribed Uci, pushed Uci to bust Mayo, former team mates tested positive after leaving the team (Hamilton, Heras, etc)

Sky and epo/blood are words we never even heard put together.
Sky and testo patches? alleged
Sky and cortisone out of competition? it was allowed.

 

[SHAD0W93]

that's how antidoping works. you or your former team mates test positive/confess and sanctions come up. it was confirmed Armstrong bribed Uci, pushed Uci to bust Mayo, former team mates tested positive after leaving the team (Hamilton, Heras, etc)

Sky and epo/blood are words we never even heard put together.
Sky and testo patches? alleged
Sky and cortisone out of competition? it was allowed.

Yes, all because Armstrong returned. Otherwise it was hanging on Landis who sounded bitter. Sky have been accused of blood bags when their riders suddenly had an insane twist of recovery. Only difference now is top riders aren’t testing positive for hard drugs anymore.

 

[pastronef]

Yes, all because Armstrong returned. Otherwise it was hanging on Landis who sounded bitter. Sky have been accused of blood bags when their riders suddenly had an insane twist of recovery. Only difference now is top riders aren’t testing positive for hard drugs anymore.

that's not how antidoping works. any accusation or gratuitous guessing is just hot air. I can imagine what I want, epo, motors, deals. and in the meanwhile real doping positives went on in other teams

 

[macbindle]

Sky have been accused of blood bags when their riders suddenly had an insane twist of recovery.

Not by anyone that matters in any way, shape or form.

It's easy to create a narrative. It's how conspiracy theories work. You have seen it in action on this board, on this forum. Keep repeating the mantra, aggressively fend off any rational questioning of the mantra, and take solace in the fact that, by definition, your accusations are impossible to disprove. Easy.

We will probably never know if, outside of the standard tricks of gaming the TUE system, anything big went on.

 

[SHAD0W93]

that's not how antidoping works. any accusation or gratuitous guessing is just hot air. I can imagine what I want, epo, motors, deals. and in the meanwhile real doping positives went on in other teams

Not by anyone that matters in any way, shape or form.

It's easy to create a narrative. It's how conspiracy theories work. You have seen it in action on this board, on this forum. Keep repeating the mantra, aggressively fend off any rational questioning of the mantra, and take solace in the fact that, by definition, your accusations are impossible to disprove. Easy.

We will probably never know if, outside of the standard tricks of gaming the TUE system, anything big went on.

Froome’s case would have been the tipping scale to anything further. Even if we were to believe everything was true as UCI did, UCI went from punishing those who were found to accidentally ingest substances to clearing Froome. Now it’ll need a whistleblower for information to come out. The riders on Sky have to be insanely underrated to beat or come close to those that tested positive.

Otherwise my point of Sky being 2.0 and Jumbo 3.0 stands, and it has been brought up by others in the past. Postal’s past didn’t fall apart until Armstrong unretired, just like Froome’s case was the tipping point but it went Sky’s way.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not by anyone that matters in any way, shape or form.

It's easy to create a narrative. It's how conspiracy theories work. You have seen it in action on this board, on this forum. Keep repeating the mantra, aggressively fend off any rational questioning of the mantra, and take solace in the fact that, by definition, your accusations are impossible to disprove. Easy.

We will probably never know if, outside of the standard tricks of gaming the TUE system, anything big went on.

Thank you for explaining why we get the same long-debunked theory-crafting about Froome's past, the 2008 Tour performances and the likes being raised too every time the debunkings have dropped off the front page enough to reach a new audience. It's a two-way road.

As I say, five and a half years ago I went eleven paragraphs into why it is Sky's inner sanctum and not Britain as a whole that faces scrutiny and that people are turning their noses up at... and five and a half years later we're still getting "it's just because everybody hates the British" raised periodically and perpetuating the cycle of talking about it, and then those same posters whining that the threads about Sky are longer than other ones that don't have to repeat themselves start to finish every few months.

 

[zlev11]

Not by anyone that matters in any way, shape or form.

It's easy to create a narrative. It's how conspiracy theories work. You have seen it in action on this board, on this forum. Keep repeating the mantra, aggressively fend off any rational questioning of the mantra, and take solace in the fact that, by definition, your accusations are impossible to disprove. Easy.

We will probably never know if, outside of the standard tricks of gaming the TUE system, anything big went on.

Froome tested positive

 

[pastronef]

Froome tested positive

yes, he tested positive. for exceeding the limit on a puffer/ventolin. and it got leaked. we not talking about epo or blood transfusions.
well, if the only positive in all Sky years is Froome's puffer, I think it's good. compare that to Astana, Saxo, Liquigas, etc etc
and amazingly all the anti-Sky keep bringing up the few months Leinders worked with Sky, while he worked for years with Rabobank

 

[zlev11]

yes, he tested positive. for exceeding the limit on a puffer/ventolin. and it got leaked. we not talking about epo or blood transfusions.
well, if the only positive in all Sky years is Froome's puffer, I think it's good. compare that to Astana, Saxo, Liquigas, etc etc
and amazingly all the anti-Sky keep bringing up the few months Leinders worked with Sky, while he worked for years with Rabobank

this is such BS and you know it. he cheated and got caught. all the "conspiracy theorists" were all proven right, just like with Armstrong.

 

[pastronef]

this is such BS and you know it. he cheated and got caught. all the "conspiracy theorists" were all proven right, just like with Armstrong.

have I said something wrong? I agreed with you, he tested positive.

 

[Cookster15]

this is such BS and you know it. he cheated and got caught. all the "conspiracy theorists" were all proven right, just like with Armstrong.

Much was written here but it was a puffer. I don’t think Armstrong, Riis, Ricco et al got busted for salbutamol?

 

[PhiLiz]

Much was written here but it was a puffer. I don’t think Armstrong, Riis, Ricco et al got busted for salbutamol?

Armstrong and Riis were never even "busted" while racing...

 

[Cookster15]

Armstrong and Riis were never even "busted" while racing...

They were discredited over methods widely accepted as having huge performance enhancing effects. Puffers not so much.

Best I could discern was that salbutamol helps weight loss? It certainly wouldn’t help an average athlete win the Tour de France or the transformation seen at the 2011 Vuelta. Of course there were other theories which Froome wasn’t “busted” for but he was never sanctioned for those.

For the record, I am no fanboy of Froome.