Tenerife

[Benotti69]

Yes, Nibali hasn't doped since Etna 2010. That was before the amnesty so we don't hold it against him.

Was that the 1998 amnesty, the 2005 amnesty, the 2006 amnesty, the 2009 amnesty...........................................?

 

[manafana]

I think the wereabouts system could be used to limit the amount of time a cyclist or athlete could spend in these remote locations that are not their home, the cost of sending a tester to this mountain in tenerife as opposed to an apartment in Nice is surely been factored in.

 

[peterst6906]

I think the wereabouts system could be used to limit the amount of time a cyclist or athlete could spend in these remote locations that are not their home,...

Really. It's a sport, not a police state. Why should any of the riders be limited from going anywhere they want for as long as they like?

If they cheat, they should be caught, but the system isn't broken through the freedom of the riders, it's broken because of a corrupt administration.

Until the administration is fixed, nothing will change. The only ones who would be limited would be the honest ones.

 

[blackcat]

Really. It's a sport, not a police state. Why should any of the riders be limited from going anywhere they want for as long as they like?

If they cheat, they should be caught, but the system isn't broken through the freedom of the riders, it's broken because of a corrupt administration.

Until the administration is fixed, nothing will change. The only ones who would be limited would be the honest ones.

nah. unless you watch a rider 24/7 for 12 months, the winner in july will always be propped.

it would not be pro cycling without it. it has always been thus.

why change it. as long as athletes are safe, and not used as scapegoats like kohl and ricco and landis, then that is the best you can hope and avoid the injuries to vdb and pantani.

 

[ebandit]

fee at last

why change it. as long as athletes are safe, and not used as scapegoats like kohl and ricco and landis, then that is the best you can hope and avoid the injuries to vdb and pantani.

athletes are only scapegoats AFTER being caught

until then they are free to travel and do as they please observing WADA
regulations

the sadness of vdb and pantani is not the issue here

Mark L

 

[Spectacleur]

I think the wereabouts system could be used to limit the amount of time a cyclist or athlete could spend in these remote locations that are not their home, the cost of sending a tester to this mountain in tenerife as opposed to an apartment in Nice is surely been factored in.

Good point.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I think the wereabouts system could be used to limit the amount of time a cyclist or athlete could spend in these remote locations that are not their home, the cost of sending a tester to this mountain in tenerife as opposed to an apartment in Nice is surely been factored in.

Really. It's a sport, not a police state. Why should any of the riders be limited from going anywhere they want for as long as they like?

If they cheat, they should be caught, but the system isn't broken through the freedom of the riders, it's broken because of a corrupt administration.

Until the administration is fixed, nothing will change. The only ones who would be limited would be the honest ones.

Perhaps it is more something in the middle...

How long does it take to bring a sample from Tenerife to a WADA accreditated lab?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Multiple flights to Madrid or Barcelona.

About 3 hours in flight, plus road time/check in etc.

About as much time as it would take to Montreal or Salt Lake city from Atlanta.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Perhaps it is more something in the middle...

How long does it take to bring a sample from Tenerife to a WADA accreditated lab?

About 2hrs 15min flight plus 45min transfer either end going by WADA's accredited labs list. Less than most locations in the USA.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

About 2hrs 15min flight plus 45min transfer either end going by WADA's accredited labs list. Less than most locations in the USA.

So, give or take 4 to 5 hours, even taking traffic jams into account.

Do you know if samples are frozen at the spot? Or at the lab?

 

[blackcat]

athletes are only scapegoats AFTER being caught

until then they are free to travel and do as they please observing WADA
regulations

the sadness of vdb and pantani is not the issue here

Mark L

but we know there is a political game at play with "who" gets caught. how many cyclists have got caught for hgh. heck, how many athletes have got caught? I know the English rugby player committed suiced, but Sinkewitz is the only one to get "caught" in cycling.

so the term scapegoat, is completely relevant. when justice is not universal, and different athletes are treated according to how they can muster political power and influence in their corner.

which makes it astounding about Allan Davis sitting out 18months before he came back with Mitzubishi Jartazi. Alby is much loved in the Aus clique/alumni from the AIS pathway. And rode all of Turtur's TDU in Adelaide. I just assume, Turtur did not quite have continent influence i assumed he had.

 

[Catwhoorg]

So, give or take 4 to 5 hours, even taking traffic jams into account.

Do you know if samples are frozen at the spot? Or at the lab?

Blood samples are to be transported between 2 and 12 Celsius.
Urine samples 'kept cool'.

So no freezing until after they reach a lab.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

So, give or take 4 to 5 hours, even taking traffic jams into account.

Do you know if samples are frozen at the spot? Or at the lab?

Yes, it's about 1hr from Telesferico del Teide to Tenerife South Airport, 10 mins from Lisboa International to the Laboritory. If you add in parking, airport delays, traffic, then 5hrs seems about right, 4hrs on a good day. I imagine it takes longer to get a sample from Scotland or the Yorkshire dales to London, or Boulder to Salt Lake City, than it does from Tenerife to Lisboa...

Tenerife just happens to be a great warm weather, high and low altitude, traing paradise with all the mod cons you expect in any European location.

Catwhoorg answered the transport question.

There is a full section on the WADA website regarding lab locations procedures etc.

 

[ebandit]

?

but we know there is a political game at play with "who" gets caught. how many cyclists have got caught for hgh. heck, how many athletes have got caught? I know the English rugby player committed suiced, but Sinkewitz is the only one to get "caught" in cycling.

do we? sure you want to know and state so above............is it stated

anywhere else...............somewhere with more clout?

of course we have seen reasons for suspicion but it's not fact

Mark L

 

[131313]

Good point.

It's not a good point, it's a ridiculous point. If anything, carrying out OOC tests in Tenerife should be among the least expensive ways to test riders, since there's regularly a large group of riders in the area. Testers don't travel from the labs to rider's homes. Generally they live in the area and test riders from their geographic location.

The problem is not the riders' "remote" location, because it's not all that remote and there's almost always a large group of riders there. The problem seems to be the governing body's desire to actually enforce the rules.

People need to get over this Tenerife thing. Riders go there because it's a good place to train. Drugs go there because there are a lot of riders there. A rider can dope anywhere, location really doesn't have much to do with it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

do we? sure you want to know and state so above............is it stated

anywhere else...............somewhere with more clout?

of course we have seen reasons for suspicion but it's not fact

Mark L

Really? I'll play this game one time.

Compare FuYu Li's Clenbuterol positive with Contador's Clenbuterol positive.
Let's compare Landis' hasty departure, as if the UCI launched him and his samples on a catapult, with Contador's case handling.

No clout needed. (This is a variation of the ridiculous "proof" defense) All those situations are documented. I guess you can make stuff up to pretend those somehow don't apply.

No reply necessary.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

It's not a good point, it's a ridiculous point. If anything, carrying out OOC tests in Tenerife should be among the least expensive ways to test riders, since there's regularly a large group of riders in the area. Testers don't travel from the labs to rider's homes. Generally they live in the area and test riders from their geographic location.

The problem is not the riders' "remote" location, because it's not all that remote and there's almost always a large group of riders there. The problem seems to be the governing body's desire to actually enforce the rules.

People need to get over this Tenerife thing. Riders go there because it's a good place to train. Drugs go there because there are a lot of riders there. A rider can dope anywhere, location really doesn't have much to do with it.

------------------
The place is stuffed with old people and doctors. But you're right it's a great place for winter training. Maybe not if you want to practice descending in the rain. But for staying healthy and getting good workouts it must be perfect. And it's also a place largely controlled by mafia, plus a major drug-port into europe. No idea if this is helpful for the pro-teams.

 

[Benotti69]

------------------
The place is stuffed with old people and doctors. But you're right it's a great place for winter training. Maybe not if you want to practice descending in the rain. But for staying healthy and getting good workouts it must be perfect. And it's also a place largely controlled by mafia, plus a major drug-port into europe. No idea if this is helpful for the pro-teams.

Maybe the local mafia control the OOC testers.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Maybe the local mafia control the OOC testers.

-----------
Maybe they do.
A quick search on mafia/Canary islands, reveals that the islands have organised crime from lots of countries. I've talked to people living there, and basically everything is controlled by mafia, which people find out if they try to run a business there.

The climate makes it perfect for growing drugs, and the vast amount of tourists coming and going, makes it hard to monitor travellers. Also close to africa, a quick trip by speedboat.

Russian mafia is supposedly in charge, no idea if they would want to make money from PED's as well as the usual party-drug market.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Tenerif:
No cobbles
No rain
Not cold

Not the best place for:
* classics preparation (cold, wet, cobbles, flat roads, pedaling non-stop for 6+ hours)
* practicing descending in wet conditions (cold, wet)
* training in the wet (cold, wet)

 

[manafana]

It's not a good point, it's a ridiculous point. If anything, carrying out OOC tests in Tenerife should be among the least expensive ways to test riders, since there's regularly a large group of riders in the area. Testers don't travel from the labs to rider's homes. Generally they live in the area and test riders from their geographic location.

The problem is not the riders' "remote" location, because it's not all that remote and there's almost always a large group of riders there. The problem seems to be the governing body's desire to actually enforce the rules.

People need to get over this Tenerife thing. Riders go there because it's a good place to train. Drugs go there because there are a lot of riders there. A rider can dope anywhere, location really doesn't have much to do with it.

your final paragraph is one of best put iv seen this on this forum.

 

[Benotti69]

It's not a good point, it's a ridiculous point. If anything, carrying out OOC tests in Tenerife should be among the least expensive ways to test riders, since there's regularly a large group of riders in the area. Testers don't travel from the labs to rider's homes. Generally they live in the area and test riders from their geographic location.

The problem is not the riders' "remote" location, because it's not all that remote and there's almost always a large group of riders there. The problem seems to be the governing body's desire to actually enforce the rules.

People need to get over this Tenerife thing. Riders go there because it's a good place to train. Drugs go there because there are a lot of riders there. A rider can dope anywhere, location really doesn't have much to do with it.

Riders need to get over this Tenerife thing. Riders before the advent of cheap flight travel trained in the places they were home based, Kelly in Ireland (over Xmas) and then back to Belgium (2nd home)for preseason.

They managed without the sun and got on with it.

 

[mikehammer67]

your final paragraph is one of best put iv seen this on this forum.

it's not that good

athletes go to kenya to evade ooc testing
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...hing-the-boundaries-in-athletics-8604176.html

John Fahey, president of the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada), said there was a "cloud hanging over them". He said: "For some time, we have been very concerned about the accusations of doping there," going on to describe Kenya as "a location of choice for dopers".

 

[thehog]

Tenerif:
No cobbles
No rain
Not cold

Not the best place for:
* classics preparation (cold, wet, cobbles, flat roads, pedaling non-stop for 6+ hours)
* practicing descending in wet conditions (cold, wet)
* training in the wet (cold, wet)

Kerrisons magic number machine didn't program rain into his equations.

Sounds like Kerrisons been given too much authority. Having the riders pace in a straight line all day has done nothing for race tactics.

One thing for sure is that last years Tour was a gift for Wiggins.

 

[coinneach]

Kerrisons magic number machine didn't program rain into his equations.

Sounds like Kerrisons been given too much authority. Having the riders pace in a straight line all day has done nothing for race tactics.

One thing for sure is that last years Tour was a gift for Wiggins.

I agree: thats what happens when you rip the heart of the backup team out....Yates Jullich Lienders, all missed (by the team, not the parent company, or the clinic)

But no training is going to make a big long lanky guy like Wiggins good descending in the rain