Tennis

[Papa Kel]

It's amazing that tennis has such a clean reputation. Kudos to the players and higher powers on keeping the sports image so sparkly.

 

[Mr.38%]

imo doping in tennis is like EPO in cycling, LA era

More likely Riis era.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

You know, if Nadal spent a ton of time at the gym working out with weights and such, then at least one could be maybe a little skeptical but when both he and the people around him say he spends little if any time weight training, I just have to roll my eyes because no one else in the history of the game has exhibited a body of that nature. (nor probably the stamina as well)

At least Djokovic has the good grace to attribute his improved performance to some BS gluten free diet story. From Nadals book that I read some of, he said he eats lots of junk food and loves Nutella, hardly protein shakes every two hours.

 

[HappyCycling]

What is not good is that the people who oversee tennis’ anti-doping agenda are the same people who virtually dismissed doping as a potential problem in the sport. They’re coming slowly into line with the modern world but there is still suspicion about their commitment. How could there not be, given that it is Stuart Miller who is running the ITF’s anti-doping program. The same Stuart Miller who once said tennis “is not conducive to EPO (Erythropoietin)”.

Absolutely, unbelievably hilarious. What a massive idiot.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Another good article from Tom English in the Scotsman, keeping the pressure on an inept ITF

http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-andy-murray-s-words-on-doping-important-1-3081915

Personally, I think Murray was acting a bit disingenuously with his comments:-

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.c...urray-on-beating-cheating/?smid=tw-share&_r=1

The "stuff" stuff is Murray feigning ignorance of what dopers actually get up to. I imagine he is as well-informed as anyone on the methodologies and that doctors are not always constantly in attendance. Deflecting perhaps.

Murray's comments are outrageous. I don't know how there is not one journalist out there who won't piece together a few old comments of Murray complaining the testing is invasive and then see the complete U-turn in his statements.

 

[HappyCycling]

Who knew the ATP/WTA/ITF had such a strong strangle on the media?

 

[Parker]

Murray's comments are outrageous. I don't know how there is not one journalist out there who won't piece together a few old comments of Murray complaining the testing is invasive and then see the complete U-turn in his statements.

What's outrageous about him changing his mind as he becomes more informed?

 

[robow7]

I still don't think that he has such a great endurance seeing how he is unable to stay with Nadal.

No endurance?? Go back and watch the 2012 Aussie Final, no two human beings should be able to hit that hard for that many strokes in a single point for almost 6 hours without falling over in the 5th. (of course that total time includes Nadal picking his but and Djoker bouncing the ball a zillion times before each serve)

 

[Briant_Gumble]

What's outrageous about him changing his mind as he becomes more informed?

The swiftness of the change was suspicious, I don't think he lets his real feelings known in interviews.

 

[the sceptic]

Murray probably "changed his mind" after the Armstrong affair became public.

 

[Bicycle]

It will be very interesting to see how Murray performs from now on. His iconic status in the UK is secure and it may well be he will not want to take any risks that might damage it.

 

[iejeecee]

It will be very interesting to see how Murray performs from now on. His iconic status in the UK is secure and it may well be he will not want to take any risks that might damage it.

Nobody likes to lose m8.

 

[zastomito]

No endurance?? Go back and watch the 2012 Aussie Final, no two human beings should be able to hit that hard for that many strokes in a single point for almost 6 hours without falling over in the 5th. (of course that total time includes Nadal picking his but and Djoker bouncing the ball a zillion times before each serve)

I said that he doesn't have great endurance, not that he doesn't have endurance. And I said that that didn't come out of the blue circa 2011. Download that match and skip every changeover and pause between the serves. I bet that you can watch the whole match in less than 2 hours.

 

[zebedee]

More media focus on tennis doping and criticism of the ITF, this time on Sky News in a piece about the holes in the Olympic drug testing programme.

http://www1.skysports.com/olympics/...ing-programmes-leading-up-the-london-olympics

The ITF denialist, Dr Stuart Miller, gets another mention for his phony claim that tennis is increasing the amount of out-of-competition testing. An easy boast considering that Serena Williams was not tested once over the entire year.

 

[sniper]

yeah, not a bad piece. finally journos doing their job, sort of, though it's laughable that again and again people like this Dr. Stuart Millar get a chance to reply and spout their prefabricated denialist PR.
How often do these journos actually go and get a second opinion from actual anti-doping specialists a la Ashenden? Hardly ever.

baffling, the amount of journos who still can't add 1+1 and either fail or refuse to see what's going on in professional sports at the moment.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

It will be very interesting to see how Murray performs from now on. His iconic status in the UK is secure and it may well be he will not want to take any risks that might damage it.

It may be genuine or a cover story to cover reduced future performance levels following reduced doping, but there's a lot of reference in the media these days to Murray's back problem. (This was the cited reason for pulling out of the French open, which seems a bit extreme if not genuine.)

Either way, Murray may be on the downward slope sooner rather than later.

 

[zebedee]

yeah, not a bad piece. finally journos doing their job, sort of, though it's laughable that again and again people like this Dr. Stuart Millar get a chance to reply and spout their prefabricated denialist PR.
How often do these journos actually go and get a second opinion from actual anti-doping specialists a la Ashenden? Hardly ever.

baffling, the amount of journos who still can't add 1+1 and either fail or refuse to see what's going on in professional sports at the moment.

It is a mixed bag really. There are probably constraints on what journalists can publish and the depths they are prepared to go in the absence of any concrete evidence, actual or circumstantial. Despite that, however, what I do detect is significantly more interest taken by the press generally on doping; more articles on the topic, more emphasis on the exceptional nature of the players' physical endeavours and use of adjectives that hint at a player's supernatural performance, more questioning of ITF testing practice and so on. This is generally setting a tone where the public can start to believe that there is doping in tennis despite the denials and phony explanations from officials and players alike. On the other hand, as you say, why not engage more with anti-doping experts to see what they have to say. Nothing is being dug up about the Cilic case either although sooner or later either the player or the ITF will have to speak up. The present silence is deafening.

Personally I find it amazing that not one player has yet been busted for EPO nor has there been a single confirmed case of hGh use either, despite the latter being a drug of choice for injury rehabilitation and recovery. As well as the phony denials, the ITF must be dishing out the TUEs like Smarties.

 

[sniper]

It is a mixed bag really. There are probably constraints on what journalists can publish and the depths they are prepared to go in the absence of any concrete evidence, actual or circumstantial. Despite that, however, what I do detect is significantly more interest taken by the press generally on doping; more articles on the topic, more emphasis on the exceptional nature of the players' physical endeavours and use of adjectives that hint at a player's supernatural performance, more questioning of ITF testing practice and so on. This is generally setting a tone where the public can start to believe that there is doping in tennis despite the denials and phony explanations from officials and players alike. On the other hand, as you say, why not engage more with anti-doping experts to see what they have to say. Nothing is being dug up about the Cilic case either although sooner or later either the player or the ITF will have to speak up. The present silence is deafening.

Personally I find it amazing that not one player has yet been busted for EPO nor has there been a single confirmed case of hGh use either, despite the latter being a drug of choice for injury rehabilitation and recovery. As well as the phony denials, the ITF must be dishing out the TUEs like Smarties.

+1

A safe bet is that soccer and tennis are currently quite a lot dirtier than cycling, simply because there is no deterrent whatsoever. Indeed, epo and hgh must be rampant in those sports.
A recent german report had measured hematocrit levels of an average of 54 among several anonymous bundesliga players.
On average that is, so some of these guys must be hitting 60.
Hardly surprising.

It's dope till you drop.

Nadal was friggin hilarious, the way he was jumping around between the points, i've never seen anything like it.
Except perhaps friends of mine jumping around like that whilst on speed or x-tacy. I'm not kidding you, that's what it looked like.

You're right wrt the increase of doping-related press / media attention. I've noticed that as well, but i can't say I'm satisfied with the speed at which things are developing.
As you say, though, it's understandable from the /journo/reporter's point of view: they have restricted possibilities.
it's the system that completely fails to offer them any protection, like we've seen with kimmage/walsh, and for instance also with l'Equipe when they reported on madrid/fuentes and subsequently got their asses sued.

 

[zebedee]

One hopes that the rate of increase (in press interest) is exponential but, like you probably, I am not holding my breath.

As with any rich sport these days, it's use or lose. And when the cases do come up there's convenient get-outs for all. I suspect a lot of warnings and whispered conversations go on in tennis to keep the lid on the problem. It is significant to note how the bio-passport was introduced; barely a ripple of comment from players, their associations or the governing body. And we don't even know yet what the parameters are of the testing programme that is backing it.

 

[zebedee]

Talking of Cilic, apparently he's up for his hearing today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...c-drugtest-case-says-andy-murray-8813072.html

According to the Mail, it's an appeals hearing:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...c-drugtest-case-says-andy-murray-8813072.html

Were that the case, Cilic has gone right through the process without a word being given officially on the case. All of which gives grist to the mill of those who believe that silent bans and cover-ups remain a feature of professional tennis.

 

[Bicycle]

Talking of Cilic, apparently he's up for his hearing today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...c-drugtest-case-says-andy-murray-8813072.html

According to the Mail, it's an appeals hearing:-

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...c-drugtest-case-says-andy-murray-8813072.html

Were that the case, Cilic has gone right through the process without a word being given officially on the case. All of which gives grist to the mill of those who believe that silent bans and cover-ups remain a feature of professional tennis.

It's a plain fact the ITF do not announce failed tests until the whole process has been gone through.

 

[sugarman]

Interesting update on THASP yesterday...

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/an-inconvenient-truth.html

In a nutshell: Stuart Millar confirmed that circa 2007-8, EPO tests were only conducted if a prior (unsanctioned) 'screening' showed that that player may be using EPO or similar.

Among the most tested for EPO in that period were...
Federer (4 times)
Djokovic (3 times)
Nadal (2 times)

About 80 (official, secondary) EPO tests were carried out in period. No declared positives, obviously.

 

[zebedee]

It's a plain fact the ITF do not announce failed tests until the whole process has been gone through.

If Cilic were appealing, the appeal would presumably concern a decision already taken. Those decisions are made public, or so I thought.

What is Cilic appealing against?

The current anti-doping procedures for hearings are way too secretive. In criminal law, the defendant is publically known, although presumed innocent until found guilty. Why not the same here where the decisions are made to the lower, civil standard of proof.

Why is the ITF keeping all this information classified? Secrecy protects all the wrong people.

 

[sugarman]

If Cilic were appealing, the appeal would presumably concern a decision already taken. Those decisions are made public, or so I thought.

What is Cilic appealing against?

The current anti-doping procedures for hearings are way too secretive. In criminal law, the defendant is publically known, although presumed innocent until found guilty. Why not the same here where the decisions are made to the lower, civil standard of proof.

Why is the ITF keeping all this information classified? Secrecy protects all the wrong people.

I think under the WADA code, once an adverse finding has been confirmed in a hearing its supposed to be made public within 20 days. Thats just my understanding though, happy to be corrected.

So Cilic could be within that period, maybe - would be a quick turnaround for an appeal process though.....

 

[HappyCycling]

A typical Nadal fan response on the topic of doping

Cortisone? Are you ****ing serious? And definitely tennis players should be very dumb if use HGH because its effects does more harm than good in resistance sports like tennis and I have my doubts about testosterone would be beneficial to play tennis, at least in long periods, because with a good training routine should be enough to have the muscular mass necessary, in fact players like Djokovic or Federer have shown that they can be successful with very little muscle mass. Blood transfusions have more sense but I don't think that anybody risk now to do it because with the biological passport would be easy to catch a cheater only to gain a 3% of resistance and endurance. EPO are which more sense would have for a tennis player. EPO can improve a 6,4% the oxygen consumption in the best cases which obviously helps to prolongs resistance, endurance and accelerate recuperation.

Yep, they really are that blind.