Tennis

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sniper said:
he's been discussed extensively.
to summarize:
blooddoper, but still greatest player ever.

Thanks for a clear and short answer, I don't have the time the read 100+ pages.

But anyway, are there any credible evidence against Federer or is the blood doping theory build on; "He is the best, hence he must be doping and the lack of big bulky muscles together with good stamina in long games and great recover between matches suggests blood doping"?
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Marin Cilic doping scandal hangs over US Open final as short bans leave questions about drugs in tennis

I got one missed test in Croatia this year, it was my first. Then you’re kind of under a bit of pressure because if you get a second then you have to be really careful. (Marin) Cilic told me also he had two.

Cilic didn't do well in the warm up events.

He has never shown any hint that he could be a grand slam champion before this tournament, yet he smashed higher ranked players on his way to the championship. He is just 3 weeks shy of his 26th birthday and just played the best tennis of his life, BY FAR. (Borg, Chang, Courier, McEnroe, Hewitt, combined never won a single GS, at Cilic's age or older).


Hmm.

I guess 26 is the new 19. ;)
 
Tennis is dying a death out there, and everyone still thinks Cycling is the one with the problem. ****es me off. Cilic comes back from a ban and wins the USO and no one gives a ****.
 
Aug 15, 2014
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HappyCycling said:
Tennis is dying a death out there, and everyone still thinks Cycling is the one with the problem. ****es me off. Cilic comes back from a ban and wins the USO and no one gives a ****.

I think tennis is still at the stage of a) believing the various excuses that players come out with. I suspect a lot of fans believe that Cilic was hard done-by; b) of assuming hat doping doesn't help with tennis, because it's more skilful than cycling or athletics; and c) believing that only players who *look* doped-up (see Nadal/Williams) could possibly be doping.

Add to that the fact that the governing body will clearly help to cover things up (Agassi is one example, the nandrolone case is another), and tennis is in some trouble. However, I'm not entirely sure that anyone really cares. I tend to think that, having seen what's happened with cycling, no governing body truly wants their sport to go that way, so will happily avoid asking any really difficult questions (or testing their athletes properly).
 
Aug 18, 2012
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LittleJo said:
I think tennis is still at the stage of a) believing the various excuses that players come out with. I suspect a lot of fans believe that Cilic was hard done-by; b) of assuming hat doping doesn't help with tennis, because it's more skilful than cycling or athletics; and c) believing that only players who *look* doped-up (see Nadal/Williams) could possibly be doping.

Add to that the fact that the governing body will clearly help to cover things up (Agassi is one example, the nandrolone case is another), and tennis is in some trouble. However, I'm not entirely sure that anyone really cares. I tend to think that, having seen what's happened with cycling, no governing body truly wants their sport to go that way, so will happily avoid asking any really difficult questions (or testing their athletes properly).

I agree with everything you said except the no one cares part.

Not many people are bothered enough to investigate it but if full proof evidence emerged that some players were doped and others clean then the fans would be very bothered by it.

Tennis just needs it Festina. Operacion Puerto was close.
 
Aug 15, 2014
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Briant_Gumble said:
I agree with everything you said except the no one cares part.

Not many people are bothered enough to investigate it but if full proof evidence emerged that some players were doped and others clean then the fans would be very bothered by it.

Tennis just needs it Festina. Operacion Puerto was close.

Yeah, sorry, I meant that the ITF/ATP/WTA don't really care enough to put stringent testing in place. I agree that the fans would care if there were evidence that some players were doping. Although, as I said, most fans are still in the stages of happily believing the various excuses given for positives, rather than thinking they might be some indication of a broader problem.
 
Andynonomous said:
Marin Cilic doping scandal hangs over US Open final as short bans leave questions about drugs in tennis

I got one missed test in Croatia this year, it was my first. Then you’re kind of under a bit of pressure because if you get a second then you have to be really careful. (Marin) Cilic told me also he had two.

Cilic didn't do well in the warm up events.

Has never shown any hint that he could be a grand slam champion before this tournament, yet he smashed higher ranked players on his way to the championship. He is just 3 weeks shy of his 26th birthday and just played the best tennis of his life, BY FAR. (Borg, Chang, Courier, McEnroe, Hewitt, combined never won a single GS, at Cilic's age or older).


Hmm.

I guess 26 is the new 19. ;)

I don't know how much you actually know about tennis, but I'll help you out. Borg retired at 25-26, McEnroe reached his peak in 1984, and when power players like Lendl, Becker, Stich, Agassi, Sampras, Ivanisevic came along, his chances diminished. Also, tennis is about match ups. He played serve and volley, and once technology changed and power players came to the fore, he started declining, also 22-27/28 are really the prime years in most tennis players, so his time was slowly running out. Chang was a one slam wonder. He won his slam when he was only 17 (think gymnastics). He had no fear, he just played and ran everywhere and the clay courts suited his style of play. He too, was overpowered, but mostly from the baseline. You don't really expect a a 5'7 guy to dominate in the 90's when the courts were much faster, do you? Courier was a grinder, pure and simple. He, one could say, overachieved. He won 4 slams, and I think he over strained himself and burned himself out, he basically peaked at 23 and has overshadowed by Agassi and Sampras. Hewitt was the same way. He relied heavily on his movement, his grit and trying to grind people down. His style of play caused all the injuries he has had since 2006. His time as a GS contender was done after that. His last SF at a major was when he was 24. Injuries heavily influenced the last 8 years of his career. I think he could have contended more without those issues.

Now to Cilic. He was ranked #2 in junior in 2005. He beat Tim Henman at 18, beat the defending Australian Open finalist, Fernando Gonzalez in 2008 at 19, and continued playing well, almost making the 2010 Australian Open final in 2010. He's won titles and made solid runs at several majors. He has always been considered a star in the making, a talented player with a big game. Yes, 25-26 is pushing the age barrier to win your first slam, in a sport that's built for younger athletes, but Cilic just might be in his prime now. Yes, he was an outsider, but it's not like he popped out of nowhere. He's beaten great players along the way in this tournament. Had he been a journeyman ranked outside the top 50, with no significant results to speak of, grinding people down, one would wonder. In terms of talent, he's always had the capability to win big tournaments, it's just now that things opened up for him. Plenty of players can get hot for two weeks and make a run at a major, but it's ultimately his renewed mental toughness that won him the tournament. I also think that in the modern game, where courts are slower, and there are more physical rallies, it's more hard to win when you are 19.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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BullsFan22 said:
I don't know how much you actually know about tennis, but I'll help you out. Borg retired at 25-26, McEnroe reached his peak in 1984, and when power players like Lendl, Becker, Stich, Agassi, Sampras, Ivanisevic came along, his chances diminished. Also, tennis is about match ups. He played serve and volley, and once technology changed and power players came to the fore, he started declining, also 22-27/28 are really the prime years in most tennis players, so his time was slowly running out. Chang was a one slam wonder. He won his slam when he was only 17 (think gymnastics). He had no fear, he just played and ran everywhere and the clay courts suited his style of play. He too, was overpowered, but mostly from the baseline. You don't really expect a a 5'7 guy to dominate in the 90's when the courts were much faster, do you? Courier was a grinder, pure and simple. He, one could say, overachieved. He won 4 slams, and I think he over strained himself and burned himself out, he basically peaked at 23 and has overshadowed by Agassi and Sampras. Hewitt was the same way. He relied heavily on his movement, his grit and trying to grind people down. His style of play caused all the injuries he has had since 2006. His time as a GS contender was done after that. His last SF at a major was when he was 24. Injuries heavily influenced the last 8 years of his career. I think he could have contended more without those issues.

Now to Cilic. He was ranked #2 in junior in 2005. He beat Tim Henman at 18, beat the defending Australian Open finalist, Fernando Gonzalez in 2008 at 19, and continued playing well, almost making the 2010 Australian Open final in 2010. He's won titles and made solid runs at several majors. He has always been considered a star in the making, a talented player with a big game. Yes, 25-26 is pushing the age barrier to win your first slam, in a sport that's built for younger athletes, but Cilic just might be in his prime now. Yes, he was an outsider, but it's not like he popped out of nowhere. He's beaten great players along the way in this tournament. Had he been a journeyman ranked outside the top 50, with no significant results to speak of, grinding people down, one would wonder. In terms of talent, he's always had the capability to win big tournaments, it's just now that things opened up for him. Plenty of players can get hot for two weeks and make a run at a major, but it's ultimately his renewed mental toughness that won him the tournament. I also think that in the modern game, where courts are slower, and there are more physical rallies, it's more hard to win when you are 19.


Well, if you say you are tennis expert, and Cilic is clean, then it must be true. I know that people never BS on the internet. :D
 
May 13, 2009
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Agree, everyone's been looking at Delpo and Cilic for several years as to when they might make their mark, of course injuries have sidelined Delpo after his Open win but with Cilic, it's his mental stability that has been questioned when he has lost to so many lesser players. Well he'll be confident now, a sleeping dog might have been woken. But yea, still think he's been doing naughty things.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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From the same article :

"Tennis exists in a cosy world of big money, good looks and high performance that’s left everyone smiling. But behind this, the carry on of the sport suggests there’s a dark and dirty secret, writes Ewan MacKenna"
 
Crystal meth doesn't take your bench press to almost 160 kg. Doping does.

From Wiki:- Agassi himself said in 2005, at the age of 35, "Gil is the reason why I've won more Slams after the age of 29 than I did before. He's the reason why I'm still out there playing this sport at a time in my life when I can really understand and appreciate it."

Reyes's approach transformed Agassi into a well-conditioned strong athlete. When they first began working together Agassi could bench press 135 pounds. Fourteen years later in 2003, he was benchpressing 350 lbs. Reyes described his job as being "to get Agassi to be as good to himself as he is to others."The relationship between Reyes and Agassi was so close that Reyes was sometimes called "the core" of Agassi's team of advisors, friends and family.

Reyes's contributions to Agassi's success were often overlooked in favor of the contributions of coaches like Brad Gilbert.

The fact Reyes's contributions were often overlooked partly explains why Agassi was able to get away with it.
 
May 13, 2009
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Yea, in Agassi's autobiography, he mentions Gil's secret shakes but doesn't go into detail what was in them, yea right, he was't that naive.

In his book he mentions the meth but doesn't give the indication that he was hooked on the stuff for that long as she indicates. And he only tested positive just that once? hmmmm
 
May 19, 2010
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We’ll start this week with a story. A few years ago, I was at an event when a player grabbed me by the wrist. “I want to show you something,” she said. She took me to a wall displaying photos of the event’s previous winners. One player had won the event multiple times. Her photos revealed a remarkably -- how to put this? -- evolved physique over the years, the equivalent of before-and-after images of a toning program.

“There,” the player said. “Now go write about it.”

http://www.si.com/tennis/2014/11/19/wertheim-mailbag-doping-itf-tennis
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Meanwhile, not that he'll care, but Federer has lost quite a bit of my sympathy.
Apparently, every time he plays Wawrinka, his wife Mirka has been in the player's box yelling distracting things between services.
In the semifinals in London last weekend Wawrinka turns to Federer's box and says something about it, then Mirka can be heard calling him a "cry baby".
Here's an article with footage:
http://www.si.com/tennis/2014/11/18/roger-federer-wife-mirka-stan-wawrinka-cry-baby

Doesn't reflect well on Federer's sportsmanship.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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sniper said:
pretty good article/blog.
a pity he doesn't name the names in that anecdote that you cite.

They hardly ever do. Stories like these have been mentioned before. But at least it's a starting point.

sniper said:
Meanwhile, not that he'll care, but Federer has lost quite a bit of my sympathy.
Apparently, every time he plays Wawrinka, his wife Mirka has been in the player's box yelling distracting things between services.
In the semifinals in London last weekend Wawrinka turns to Federer's box and says something about it, then Mirka can be heard calling him a "cry baby".
Here's an article with footage:
http://www.si.com/tennis/2014/11/18/roger-federer-wife-mirka-stan-wawrinka-cry-baby

Doesn't reflect well on Federer's sportsmanship.


And the Tennis press ate it up. If only they spent time on more serious issues. Anyway the whole thing was odd, though I'm not sure why you would lose sympathy for him considering he was at the other end and wasn't fully aware of what was happening. It seems he was made aware during the locker room discussion he and his compatriot had after the match. If the reports are accurate I do think that his wife will need a stern talking to, it wasn't very sportsmanlike on her part considering that she herself used to be a professional Tennis player.
 
Jul 7, 2014
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Speaking of Reyes, check this out:

At the same time, there has been an advancement in the physical conditioning of every athlete led by trendsetters like Agassi, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray. He said he believed that as training programs continue to incorporate sports medicine and understanding of the skeletal wear and tear on the joints, then injuries would be prevented.

[...]

“Just look at Andy Murray when he won Wimbledon this year,” he said. “This past year, he’s really been looking kind of strong compared to years prior. He hasn’t necessarily become bigger and bulkier, but he’s just really lean and muscular and a powerful athlete. Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are very muscular men, and if you don’t think so I encourage you to watch the 2012 Australian Open final.”

Djokovic beat Nadal over six hours that day, and Reyes was fascinated by Djokovic’s reaction afterward, when he walked towards his box, ripped off his shirt and let out a primal roar.

“That’s the first thing he thought to do after one of the most physical, certainly the most sensational tennis match I’ve ever seen,” Reyes said. “That is him sending out a message, I’m here and I’m ready. You have to deal with me. I’ve worked for it, I just played one of the most amazing matches in history and I’m good to go. That was him asserting his physicality.”

http://straightsets.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/physiological-cost-is-part-of-tenniss-evolution-reyes-says/

318197.jpg
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ticker said:
They hardly ever do. Stories like these have been mentioned before. But at least it's a starting point.




And the Tennis press ate it up. If only they spent time on more serious issues. Anyway the whole thing was odd, though I'm not sure why you would lose sympathy for him considering he was at the other end and wasn't fully aware of what was happening. It seems he was made aware during the locker room discussion he and his compatriot had after the match. If the reports are accurate I do think that his wife will need a stern talking to, it wasn't very sportsmanlike on her part considering that she herself used to be a professional Tennis player.
I like that they showed some personality and did not sublimate this instinct.


I lost respect for Federer when he was crying after losing an Australian Open final around 2009. For chrissakes, to be a champion, and to win a bundle of titles, you need to learn how to lose with grace too.

When he was a young buck, in his first few years on the Tour, when he did not have stamina (which is code for, before he got on PEDs to aid his endurance), he was not a good loser, he performed badly in his tennis and his grace. Then he won, but its easy to be a graceful winner, you can badfaith act your way thru that as you experience the joy. Cant act your way to grace when losing.

Good to see Mirka display some personality
 
Jan 24, 2012
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http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/573827/20141125/rafael-nadal-doping-tennis-academy.htm#.VHU_zMkrHYQ

Nadal said that the doctor has taken plasma out of his blood and spun it in a centrifuge until only the growth factors were left. Then they were injected to him to regenerate the tissues of the affected area. Nadal said that the stem cell treatment was a little aggressive compared with his knee treatment because a hole was drilled on his back to extract the stem cells from the iliac crest. The stem cells were then cultivated and bred to try to help regenerate the tissues faster.

favorite quote:
Some athletes have taken illegal substances to enhance their performance in their field of sport. Such activity is known as doping.

I think Nadal has his own thread but I'm not sure.