Tennis

[fuzzydunlop3]

He was a client of some doctor, no doubt, but the 'big' tennis player in the OP files has been rumored to be Ferrer, no stranger to dope docs

why would they go through all the trouble to protect Ferrer? especially in 2006 when he wasn't even relevant

 

[peloton]

why would they go through all the trouble to protect Ferrer? especially in 2006 when he wasn't even relevant

What trouble?

 

[zebedee]

He was a client of some doctor, no doubt, but the 'big' tennis player in the OP files has been rumored to be Ferrer, no stranger to dope docs

If the truth be known, I reckon you'd see a whole pocket of Spanish players on the juice and blood doping, probably starting in earnest around the time of Moya if not before. It was fairly evident the moment you walked into one of their famed academies and saw the supplement culture that existed in those places. The comment of Vince Spadea on the Argentines could as equally have applied to Spanish players too except they had the appropriate doctors in the know or 'licenced physician for completion of doping control' as one laughingly put it.

 

[Andynonomous]

He was a client of some doctor, no doubt, but the 'big' tennis player in the OP files has been rumored to be Ferrer, no stranger to dope docs

I have heard Ferrero. He was a one-time GS winner.

The Spaniards had a renaissance in tennis in the 90's, with quite a few players breaking through. Brugerra, Costa, Moya, Corretja, then Ferrero, Ferrer, Robredo, Nadal, Verdasco, Lopez, Almagro, ... There has been quite a few Spaniards in the top 25 in the last 20 years. They have been very successful in Davis cup, where depth is key. Spain only had the occasional top player before the 90s.

The Spanish tennis renaissance, occurred at the same time that Spain started doing very well in the Olympics, and football, and cycling as well. Of course, Fuente's wife knows where the bodies are buried.
'I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down Spanish sport'

 

[peloton]

I have heard Ferrero. He was a one-time GS winner.

The Spaniards had a renaissance in tennis in the 90's, with quite a few players breaking through. Brugerra, Costa, Moya, Corretja, then Ferrero, Ferrer, Robredo, Nadal, Verdasco, Lopez, Almagro, ... There has been quite a few Spaniards in the top 25 in the last 20 years. They have been very successful in Davis cup, where depth is key. Spain only had the occasional top player before the 90s.

The Spanish tennis renaissance, occurred at the same time that Spain started doing very well in the Olympics, and football, and cycling as well. Of course, Fuentes wife knows where the bodies are buried.
'I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down Spanish sport'

The Mosquito? Lol

Hard to disagree with the rest, but remember clay is where they all broke through, mainly.

I'd read Fuentes' tell all book, fear he'll never get that opportunity though..

 

[Andynonomous]

,but remember clay is where they all broke through, mainly.

Clay is the one surface where added stamina would give you the biggest advantage. Fuentes was most infamous for autologous blood doping (although I suspect EPO is more popular in tennis, because of all of the travelling). Regardless, the Spaniards (except Verdasco, and Lopez) took stamina in tennis to a new, Armstrong-like level.

 

[Ticker]

The Mosquito? Lol

Hard to disagree with the rest, but remember clay is where they all broke through, mainly.

I'd read Fuentes' tell all book, fear he'll never get that opportunity though..

Back in January 2008 a journalist wrote that Nadal, Ferrero and Alex Corretja were at some point investigated for doping but nothing came out of it. Note that the article also says that Nadal tested positive in Dubai 2006:

Penultimate paragraph:
http://dopage.over-blog.org/article-15854736.html

 

[The Hitch]

If, as some claim, Nadal did turn out to have been a Fuentes client, he must have started doping at a remarkably young age. In May 2006 when the Puerto scandal first broke he was only seventeen.

Would you be into blood doping at that age?

19 when he won the french in 2005, so he was 20 not 17 exactly a year later when Puerto broke.

 

[sniper]

I have heard Ferrero. He was a one-time GS winner.

The Spaniards had a renaissance in tennis in the 90's, with quite a few players breaking through. Brugerra, Costa, Moya, Corretja, then Ferrero, Ferrer, Robredo, Nadal, Verdasco, Lopez, Almagro, ... There has been quite a few Spaniards in the top 25 in the last 20 years. They have been very successful in Davis cup, where depth is key. Spain only had the occasional top player before the 90s.

The Spanish tennis renaissance, occurred at the same time that Spain started doing very well in the Olympics, and football, and cycling as well. Of course, Fuentes wife knows where the bodies are buried.
'I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down Spanish sport'

good post.
that Spanish renaissance was ridiculous.
I think there were at least a couple of slams with 5 or 6 out of 8 quarter finalists being spanish, and some pro tournaments with only spanish semifinalists. (correct me if i'm exaggerating)

 

[Alexandre B.]

https://twitter.com/bartoli_marion/status/572481564220764160

End of a 2-years ban ?

 

[sniper]

https://twitter.com/bartoli_marion/status/572481564220764160

End of a 2-years ban ?

haha.
silent ban over.
so predictable.

 

[bewildered]

not 2 years but maybe one

 

[MBotero]

haha.
silent ban over.
so predictable.

Is not the same person who was complaining that are to many drugs tests in tennis ?

 

[SeriousSam]

Is there any evidence silent bans are a real thing? They don't make a lot of sense given the incentives of everyone involved.

 

[sniper]

Is there any evidence silent bans are a real thing? They don't make a lot of sense given the incentives of everyone involved.

it's a good question, but yes, there is evidence not just from tennis.
Woods (golf), Nadal (tennis), are both rumored by colleagues to have had silent bans. Imo, coming from colleagues, that's likely to be true.
But I think there are other more concrete cases as well. (perhaps andynonymous or someone else can help me out here)

Why wouldn't it make sense? You mean why wouldn't the tennis body cover it up completely and ignore the positive all together?
Well, I don't think it's that easy to ignore a positive if the testing was done by a WADA lab. Sure, positives are swept under the carpet every now and again with the help of corrupt antidoping officers, but still it's not a straightforward procedure, me thinks, and one that, if it comes to light, would be a scandal for the ITF. A silent ban seems an easier solution. And no scandal for the ITF, even if it comes out.
The important thing to bear in mind here is that (if i'm not mistaken) WADA implicitly allows for silent bans. The WADA code gives the sports bodies the freedom to disclose the positive the way they deem proper. So that could mean without publicly disclosing the name of the athlete.
(I don't think it's always been like this, but i'm quite sure it's like this at present)
Thus, a silent ban is a win-win for any sports body: no need to bribe antidoping officials, and no bad publicity either.

Perhaps a good question is why hasn't UCI made more use of silent bans?

 

[bewildered]

i backed Bartoli to come back before end 2015 at 8/1 the day she retired. So Allez Mar-yon from this camp anyway!

 

[The Hitch]

it's a good question, but yes, there is evidence not just from tennis.
Woods (golf), Nadal (tennis), are both rumored by colleagues to have had silent bans. Imo, coming from colleagues, that's likely to be true.
But I think there are other more concrete cases as well. (perhaps andynonymous or someone else can help me out here)

Sometimes sniper, you don't make sense. That is weak. What colleagues have claimed they had silent bans. What was actually said, how did colleagues find out?

Also I don't get how someone like Nadal would fail a doping test in tennis's weak testing system to begin with.

 

[sniper]

Sometimes sniper, you don't make sense. That is weak. What colleagues have claimed they had silent bans. What was actually said, how did colleagues find out?

Woods was just in the news (see the "doping in other sports" thread).
Nadal was some time ago when a German low profile (challenger circuit) player went on the record in an interview saying that it's a badly kept secret that Nadal is a doper and that he had even tested positive and served some sort of silent ban (even though that german bloke may not have used the exact same words).

i have no time to look for links, but i sense Andynonymous will be here soon to back me up

Also I don't get how someone like Nadal would fail a doping test in tennis's weak testing system to begin with.

fair point.
However, me thinks that even ITF/ATP have to follow certain protocols (e.g. the winner of a slam must be tested) and can only be corrupt to a certain extent. If you look at Nadal, I never think he's on very sophisticated stuff. More like on the hardcore anabolics, EPO, and that kind of stuff.
Rather, I think he's very confident in the ITF/ATP's skills to cover his back should he test positive.

 

[SeriousSam]

Serving silent bans is still costly. Nadal has tens of millions and there is no reason he doesn't use designer drugs. They cost nothing for someone with his bank roll.

Yes, when I was saying not incentive compatible that's what I was referring to. I still don't get it. WADA officials would not condone some sport body just not punishing an athlete but they are ok with silent bans? That seems very unlikely to me. That serves absolutely no one's interests. Not the athletes': No ban is preferable. Not the sporting body: No ban is preferable. Not Wada: Either they don't give a **** about doping, then no ban + bribe is preferable, or they do, then silent bans are unacceptable.

 

[zebedee]

It is possible or probable even, that silent bans occurred in the past when the testing regime was run by the player/promoter unions - the ATP and WTA. What we certainly do know, factually, is that doping cover-ups, if not silent suspensions, were once the order of the day. An ex-head of the Spanish tennis federation has attested to the ATP practice of doing this and we have Agassi's own word on the time his own doping positive was covered up. That much is known.

Tennis anti-doping is nowadays run by the ITF which has signed up to the WADA code. Theoretically any ban has to be announced. However, the rules accords the ITF a degree of 'flexibility' in regard to how a player's voluntary suspension (while a doping investigation is underway) is publicly announced. This period of suspension can remain unannounced for ever if the player succeeds in his anti-doping case. You could therefore argue that this alone constitutes a silent ban, albeit a voluntary one.

In the case of Cilic, he was allowed, encouraged possibly, to lie about his suspension. Both the Wimbledon authorities and the ITF therefore acted complicitly in this lying which was aimed at fooling the public. In my opinion, the word or silence, of any authority which can act so contemptuously towards the public in one matter, ought not to be trusted generally.

 

[zebedee]

. . . Nadal was some time ago when a German low profile (challenger circuit) player went on the record in an interview saying that it's a badly kept secret that Nadal is a doper and that he had even tested positive and served some sort of silent ban (even though that german bloke may not have used the exact same words). . . .

You may be referring to the ex-junior Belgium player, Cedric Roelant, who gave an online intervew on Reddit. He was familiar with Nadal as a junior and claims 100% certainty that he doped early in his career while off the circuit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/2jw3qe/c_roelant_ama_60_itf_atp_player/

 

[SundayRider]

You may be referring to the ex-junior Belgium player, Cedric Roelant, who gave an online intervew on Reddit. He was familiar with Nadal as a junior and claims 100% certainty that he doped early in his career while off the circuit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/2jw3qe/c_roelant_ama_60_itf_atp_player/

interesting read that.

 

[poupou]

I just heard that Bartoli is going to start a online business, so she is probably just trying to get more attention.

 

[sniper]

It is possible or probable even, that silent bans occurred in the past when the testing regime was run by the player/promoter unions - the ATP and WTA. What we certainly do know, factually, is that doping cover-ups, if not silent suspensions, were once the order of the day. An ex-head of the Spanish tennis federation has attested to the ATP practice of doing this and we have Agassi's own word on the time his own doping positive was covered up. That much is known.

Tennis anti-doping is nowadays run by the ITF which has signed up to the WADA code. Theoretically any ban has to be announced. However, the rules accords the ITF a degree of 'flexibility' in regard to how a player's voluntary suspension (while a doping investigation is underway) is publicly announced. This period of suspension can remain unannounced for ever if the player succeeds in his anti-doping case. You could therefore argue that this alone constitutes a silent ban, albeit a voluntary one.

In the case of Cilic, he was allowed, encouraged possibly, to lie about his suspension. Both the Wimbledon authorities and the ITF therefore acted complicitly in this lying which was aimed at fooling the public. In my opinion, the word or silence, of any authority which can act so contemptuously towards the public in one matter, ought not to be trusted generally.

great post, cheers.

You may be referring to the ex-junior Belgium player, Cedric Roelant, who gave an online intervew on Reddit. He was familiar with Nadal as a junior and claims 100% certainty that he doped early in his career while off the circuit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/2jw3qe/c_roelant_ama_60_itf_atp_player/

no, wasn't referring to this one.
I think it was a german bloke.
i posted the link here, ca. a year ago now.
i'll look for it.

 

[Ticker]

great post, cheers.

no, wasn't referring to this one.
I think it was a german bloke.
i posted the link here, ca. a year ago now.
i'll look for it.

Daniel Koellerer?

You may be referring to the ex-junior Belgium player, Cedric Roelant, who gave an online intervew on Reddit. He was familiar with Nadal as a junior and claims 100% certainty that he doped early in his career while off the circuit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/2jw3qe/c_roelant_ama_60_itf_atp_player/

Behold the meltdown of that fangirl Bette.