The Caleb Ewan vs. Fernando Gaviria Thread

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

What a diabolical location choice

If there's wind it could be one of the great WCRRs.

Indeed. It could turn into Aus vs. Belgium vs. Germany with their rider's experience in crosswinds and echelons. Poor Gaviria might struggle though

I'd put my cash on the Europeans should it come to echelons. Aussies aren't particularly well known for being alert on this score. Furthermore, if Ewan is nominated as "the man" for this race, such a move would see his chances out the window. As yet, he hasn't the strength & sustained power to hold onto a lead group in those conditions. In time, that may change but a highly doubtful proposition for the next year or so.

Michael Rogers' record speaks for itself in this regard. If there's wind, him and Hayman will be the first two picked.

Rogers most unlikely. Firstly, we don't know when/whether he may return due to heart issues that currently have him sidelined. Secondly, he no longer rides on an AUS licence. He fell out with Cycling AUS when he felt the then CEO, Adrian Anderson, "threw him under a bus" at the time of his 2013 "positive".

 

[42x16ss]

Forgot about the heart issues and should have taken the clen incident into account as well. Still, the Australian team would have Hayman, Durbridge, Hepburn, Bobridge, Haussler etc to choose from.

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

What a diabolical location choice

If there's wind it could be one of the great WCRRs.

Problem is, they have the strong winds in February, but do they also have it in September? I heard here last year that this was not the case and and will be just hot!

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

I did read before that they were going to "build" a hilly course, but no idea if that is true, still applicable or how hilly such a course would be.

They planned to do this but they decided that it would be too complicated.
However if I'm right there will be short cobble sections. Nevertheless I think the main "obstacle" this year will be the Heat although they delayed the race to october

 

[pink_jersey]

Re: Re:

What a diabolical location choice

If there's wind it could be one of the great WCRRs.

Stop with this. Even Boonen said that is most likely that we'll not have crosswinds. The race is disputed in a circuit in town where isn't very much wind. We'll probably have some mass sprint won by Greipel/Kittel/Cav.

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

What a diabolical location choice

If there's wind it could be one of the great WCRRs.

Stop with this. Even Boonen said that is most likely that we'll not have crosswinds. The race is disputed in a circuit in town where isn't very much wind. We'll probably have some mass sprint won by Greipel/Kittel/Cav.

Particularly with the diesel at there disposal.

 

[blackcat]

wondering how Caleb Ewan will navigate field sprints at The Tour when there are 20 highclass teams, and 10 legitimate highclass sprinters...

and if he starts to win, and he does not have a team as dominant as Stapleton's Columbia, and he cannot sprint from the front ahead of everyone because of his team is not Columbia, will Ewan's true slipstream advantage be neutralised, because he is coming from 5 lengths behind at 200 metres when he sprints for the wind. The cannonball aero CdA only becomes an advantage when he sticks his nose in the wind, and he is out of traffic.

If he starts to win like Cav, would any sprinter have any compunction in riding him into the asphalt, the tarmac, the ground, and if he has his head out in front of his bars, it could be much more dangerous (I appreciate the geometry why and when Caleb Ewan uses that position, not when he is in traffic, so therefore no one then can make him bite the dirt)...

Mcewen could still jump/accelerate faster than anyone in his final year with Astana and Greenedge. He did not have the terminal velocity and speed endurance to win, but he could out accelerate anyone. He still prolly can out accelerate two-thirds of the elite sprinters in the Protour.

Now Cav may well be GOAT, but Mcewen could always out-jump him. But I dont think Mcewen ever beat Cav mano-a-mano, and that is the only thing that counts, the top step and the W.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

wondering how Caleb Ewan will navigate field sprints at The Tour when there are 20 highclass teams, and 10 legitimate highclass sprinters...

and if he starts to win, and he does not have a team as dominant as Stapleton's Columbia, and he cannot sprint from the front ahead of everyone because of his team is not Columbia, will Ewan's true slipstream advantage be neutralised, because he is coming from 5 lengths behind at 200 metres when he sprints for the wind. The cannonball aero CdA only becomes an advantage when he sticks his nose in the wind, and he is out of traffic.

If he starts to win like Cav, would any sprinter have any compunction in riding him into the asphalt, the tarmac, the ground, and if he has his head out in front of his bars, it could be much more dangerous (I appreciate the geometry why and when Caleb Ewan uses that position, not when he is in traffic, so therefore no one then can make him bite the dirt)...

Mcewen could still jump/accelerate faster than anyone in his final year with Astana and Greenedge. He did not have the terminal velocity and speed endurance to win, but he could out accelerate anyone. He still prolly can out accelerate two-thirds of the elite sprinters in the Protour.

Now Cav may well be GOAT, but Mcewen could always out-jump him. But I dont think Mcewen ever beat Cav mano-a-mano, and that is the only thing that counts, the top step and the W.

And still a few fools are saying that Mcewen wouldn't be competitive today because he lacks the watts...
Fun fact, when Alejet was asked who was the tougher rival,Cippo or Cav, his answer was Mcewen, you couldn't affort to make one single mistake or he'd beat you.
Ewan already was involed in a decent amount of crashes, so his lack of size could be a problem if things get a little bit messy in a sprint.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

wondering how Caleb Ewan will navigate field sprints at The Tour when there are 20 highclass teams, and 10 legitimate highclass sprinters...

and if he starts to win, and he does not have a team as dominant as Stapleton's Columbia, and he cannot sprint from the front ahead of everyone because of his team is not Columbia, will Ewan's true slipstream advantage be neutralised, because he is coming from 5 lengths behind at 200 metres when he sprints for the wind. The cannonball aero CdA only becomes an advantage when he sticks his nose in the wind, and he is out of traffic.

If he starts to win like Cav, would any sprinter have any compunction in riding him into the asphalt, the tarmac, the ground, and if he has his head out in front of his bars, it could be much more dangerous (I appreciate the geometry why and when Caleb Ewan uses that position, not when he is in traffic, so therefore no one then can make him bite the dirt)...

Mcewen could still jump/accelerate faster than anyone in his final year with Astana and Greenedge. He did not have the terminal velocity and speed endurance to win, but he could out accelerate anyone. He still prolly can out accelerate two-thirds of the elite sprinters in the Protour.

Now Cav may well be GOAT, but Mcewen could always out-jump him. But I dont think Mcewen ever beat Cav mano-a-mano, and that is the only thing that counts, the top step and the W.

And still a few fools are saying that Mcewen wouldn't be competitive today because he lacks the watts...
Fun fact, when Alejet was asked who was the tougher rival,Cippo or Cav, his answer was Mcewen, you couldn't affort to make one single mistake or he'd beat you.
Ewan already was involed in a decent amount of crashes, so his lack of size could be a problem if things get a little bit messy in a sprint.

but Robbie would not want, as Cav alled them, those "$hit small races (wins)" when Robbie had a Hamburg(when Hamburg went from Hew and down to 210 or 200km one year, it was hewed, and those semi classics, paris brussels, all those 2.1 sprint wins, and the 2.HC wins, and 24Giro/Tour wins or whatever it was.

His winning potency was off in his last 4 years, but he could accelerate like none other still. The best win was 2007 London I think. The one where Lotto brought him back into the peloton when he was about a minute behind the field with 30minutes to go after a crash, just as the field was ramping up the speed, and he had about 5 lotto teammates come back to help him. It was up there with Cav's San Remo. It was phenomenal.
I reckon Mcewen would still be the best pilot if he would do that role, or, maybe not as good as Cav if Cav would deign to be a pilot/leadout man.

But Mcewen has the best handle on a bike that anyone, even better than Sagan. Different requirement handling in the field sprint, cos Sagan has other handling ability that no one else had.

I think Mcewen has said that the best bike handler was Fred Moncassin. I may be wrong. It was one of the 1990s sprinters, pretty sure it was Moncassin, not Blijlevens, all I remember of Jerome Blijlevens was his handbags at ten paces with Bobby Julich after a stage. Worst punh on ever. The best would have been Robbie Hunter versus Yaroslav Popovych when they got of their bikes on a Tour of California climb around 2009, because Robbie Hunter is the man baptised as the angriest man in the peloton but Popo was a golden gloves in the Ukraine military and he would have whipped Hunter's @r$e if they went the knuckle, so lucky for Hunter the face off went no-where, but they did get off their bikes.


***caveat, I may have used a little bit of licence, but I think this is a higher truth that was correct.

 

[armchairclimber]

Ewan 2nd in the Herald Sun prologue. He has some sustained speed then.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Ewan 2nd in the Herald Sun prologue. He has some sustained speed then.

A 2.1km prologue over in less than 3min. Most sprinters have little problem with these and can often finish quite high. He was a reasonable track junior so something of this length shouldn't be an issue. The Giro prologue (9.8km/6 mile) may be another matter.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

Ewan 2nd in the Herald Sun prologue. He has some sustained speed then.

A 2.1km prologue over in less than 3min. Most sprinters have little problem with these and can often finish quite high. He was a reasonable track junior so something of this length shouldn't be an issue. The Giro prologue (9.8km/6 mile) may be another matter.

Thanks for that. I'm an interloper from another sport so, although I suspected as much was true, it's always good to be given a steer.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Ewan 2nd in the Herald Sun prologue. He has some sustained speed then.

Cav has won some prologues, I think he won Duetschland, and some others under 3km.

Ewan will win prologues the same as Cav has, on the back of his CdA.

The CdA' advantage maybe even more pronounced when they are on full aero tt frames, not their road bikes.

 

[Ruudz0r]

http://federacioncolombianadeciclismo.com/noticia/ruta/1762/mis-retos-son-el-mundial-y-la-mil-n-san-remo-fernando-gaviria

Gaviria aiming for MSR and likely doing the Vuelta .

I think he can already do really well in MSR in his first year and I wouldnt even be surprised if he ends up winning it.

 

[Escarabajo]

I think we need to re-allocate some of the posts in here. If we just want talk about each of the riders we need to put them in their threads. The Caleb Ewan vs Gaviria thread can be revisited when they face off in the future.

Thanks.

 

[Gigs_98]

Now todays stage has to be mentioned in this thread. Their first big battle on WT level goes to...Gaviria. I hoped for Ewan because of my CQ team but still, seeing a columbian winning a bunch sprint in the tirreno adriatico is just very cool.

 

[Happy dude]

Brilliant sprint

 

[jaylew]

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

Simply amazing. And like some others already said, he did all that on the hoods.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

Simply amazing. And like some others already said, he did all that on the hoods.

He was definitely smoother navigating the field in that last k than Ewan was.

 

[Vesica]

Wow, perfect navigation through the bunch from Gaviria. great vid.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re:

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

Fantastic sprint. It looks as if Ewan can't hold his positon as easy as Gaviria, so he opened up too far back. Ewan only caught Gaviria just before the final kink and because of this there was no oppotuinity to pass him.

As others have said Gaviria is sprinting on his hoods. Has he done that in other sprints?

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

Simply amazing. And like some others already said, he did all that on the hoods.

Wow. This is video is a great find! 1KM to go. Gaviria is 26 BACK! Sagan has the perfect leadout. Gaviria loses his leadout and is left on his own. He calmly starts moving up. Viviani is on his wheel from early on, he knows Gaviria will take him to the finish. Gaviria does his first kick, immediately Viviani loses his wheel. Some more navigation through traffic and Ewan sees Gaviria, latches on. Sagan is boxed in when Gaviria does his next kick...Sagan is soft pedaling, Gaviria and Ewan take momentum around a turn and already gap the rest. One on One, Gaviria does his last kick. I was impressed with Caleb here too, he hung back and looked like could have passed him if there was 20 more meters, drafting off Gaviria the whole time...Then again, Gaviria could then drop down to the drops if he felt a threat LOL.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Had to post this video here as well. It's got a great overhead replay of the final k.

Fantastic sprint. It looks as if Ewan can't hold his positon as easy as Gaviria, so he opened up too far back. Ewan only caught Gaviria just before the final kink and because of this there was no oppotuinity to pass him.

As others have said Gaviria is sprinting on his hoods. Has he done that in other sprints?

First time I've ever seen him do it.

 

[Gigs_98]

Its actually sad that because of Gavirias superb sprint Ewan's sprint gets hardly any attention, because without Gaviria he would have won this stage with ease. Seriously, I'm just looking forward to future fights between these two riders because after today I really believe that these two guys will dominate the sprints in the next years.