The Chris Squared Thread

[The Hitch]

Looks to be a massively different rider than the last year - Maybe DB decided to ungain him after he was rumoured (now fact) to be leaving.

Perhaps we are now seeing the "baseline" Uran? See how turp'd up he is under Omega-Quickstep regime.....

Different how? Last year his highlights of the season were winning Piedmont (hasn't happened yet) 3rd Lombarida (hasn't happened yet) and 2nd Orr (isnt taking place this year).

in the giro he was 7th last year and 2nd with a stage win this year.

He isn't performing at the Vuelta this year but then, absolutely no one apart from Nibali who did well at the Giro is performing in the Vuelta. Pozzovivo maybe but he wasnt all that in the giro.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Different how? Last year his highlights of the season were winning Piedmont (hasn't happened yet) 3rd Lombarida (hasn't happened yet) and 2nd Orr (isnt taking place this year).

in the giro he was 7th last year and 2nd with a stage win this year.

He isn't performing at the Vuelta this year but then, absolutely no one apart from Nibali who did well at the Giro is performing in the Vuelta. Pozzovivo maybe but he wasnt all that in the giro.

Different in riding style, mainly in his position in select groups - last year he was always close to the front, often making short attacks to reduce numbers - now he spends a good deal of time hiding in the bunch, near the back, then just slip-sliding away to lose time.

Looks like a rider off-form, or off the go-go juice, my guess is the latter.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

And dropping a Marginal Gains recipient (Uran) like a brick today, all whilst breathing through his nose and climbing stand for nearly the whole of the final climb today.....

Uran has been getting dropped like a brick all Vuelta. Guess he's not getting the marginal gains anymore.

 

[red_flanders]

He's American. I guess he gets marginal gains from a young age. What with tearing up the American scene. Hincapie is another one. The Stars and Stripes gives you wings.

How is Hincapie's career comparable with Horner's?

Totally different kind of rider with a completely different career and palmares. Not sure what you're trying to say. You're attacking Horner by linking him to Hincapie somehow? I don't get it.

 

[maltiv]

Only 2 Sky riders profitting from marginal gains these days, I wonder how they fail to improve the other 28 people?

One possible theory is that they implement the same intensity in training for the guys who are on the juice and those who aren't. Obviously the clean guys end up becoming severely overtrained.

It's almost absurd how they can be so stupid to continue with that crazy training when it's so evident that almost all of their guys are overtrained...guys like Sivtsov, Henao, Kiry, Lopez, Dombrowski etc clearly peaked in ****ing January and have been getting gradually worse since then and Sky's response is to change nothing

 

[zlev11]

i always think back to Trentino when Sivtsov was riding away from everyone in the mountains, right after David Lopez and Kiriyienka towed everyone around France for the entirety of Paris-Nice, and Cataldo and the Colombians were dropping the entire field on headwind climbs at T-A. the Sky train looked like it was going to destroy the Giro.

and then guys started testing positive for GW1516 and all of those guys suddenly sucked and haven't been the same ever since.

 

[The Hitch]

i always think back to Trentino when Sivtsov was riding away from everyone in the mountains, right after David Lopez and Kiriyienka towed everyone around France for the entirety of Paris-Nice, and Cataldo and the Colombians were dropping the entire field on headwind climbs at T-A. the Sky train looked like it was going to destroy the Giro.

and then guys started testing positive for GW1516 and all of those guys suddenly sucked and haven't been the same ever since.

but how would that explain Froome and Porte?

 

[zlev11]

but how would that explain Froome and Porte?

stayed on it/had something better and undetectable

it's just a theory, not claiming i know for sure, but it definitely seemed weird to me. it was just in the way they looked on the climbs pre-Giro. especially Sivtsov and Lopez, so solid in the saddle with no upper body movement, didnt even look to be suffering, just ticking over the pedals. then the Giro came and Sivtsov couldn't even get over a category 3.

but i mean, it's probably that they just happened to peak in the spring and were overtrained after that.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

He's American. I guess he gets marginal gains from a young age. What with tearing up the American scene. Hincapie is another one. The Stars and Stripes gives you wings.

Evidently, so does the Union Jack...but only if it's flown right side up...

 

[Hugh Januss]

Disclaimer to start: I'm kind of a Horner fan since the Nutri-Fig days.
It occurs to me that he may have tried to race clean in his first years in Europe, which was decidedly not the way it was done there then. He was super talented when he started here, but he didn't get his reputation for being something of a hick without earning it. Thus the early comments about Postal and doping before he found out how the game is played and joined team omerta.
Before Foxxy jumps in just let me say this doesn't mean I don't think he is doping now.
Maybe his super form now is because he is a better responder to the same new stuff that Froome is on than he was to the EPO era stuff? Maybe he was not enough of a "donkey" to get a big enough boost from the blood vector stuff and the power gain/weight loss regimen is just what he needed.
Bottom line Horner doesn't **** me off any more than Froome or Contador or Schleck(s) or.....well he ****es me off less that Foxxy and Jimmy and the rest of the Froomieboys.

 

[Taxus4a]

Uran has been getting dropped like a brick all Vuelta. Guess he's not getting the marginal gains anymore.

You are wrong, but that is not new in his career.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You are wrong, but that is not new in his career.

He's over 24 minutes back.

 

[BroDeal]

He's over 24 minutes back.

Like Cinderella's carriage, marginal gains have an expiration time. After July the Sky riders turn back into pumpkins.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Like Cinderella's carriage, marginal gains have an expiration time. After July the Sky riders turn back into pumpkins.

Amazing, isn't it? A pumpkin may have rolled faster than Froome at the US Pro Cycling Challenge. And yet, a month before Froome was shredding the top racers in the sport.

 

[red_flanders]

Disclaimer to start: I'm kind of a Horner fan since the Nutri-Fig days.
It occurs to me that he may have tried to race clean in his first years in Europe, which was decidedly not the way it was done there then. He was super talented when he started here, but he didn't get his reputation for being something of a hick without earning it. Thus the early comments about Postal and doping before he found out how the game is played and joined team omerta.
Before Foxxy jumps in just let me say this doesn't mean I don't think he is doping now.

I think this is all pretty darn accurate. As such, not sure why the vehement reaction. I guess it's payback time for all the attacks on Froome or something.

How anyone who knows the sport could defend Froome is a question–I don't really get why anyone would think he's clean. Root for him all you want, fandom ain't rational, but to defend him as clean or "I'm not sure" strikes me as willful ignorance.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I think this is all pretty darn accurate. As such, not sure why the vehement reaction. I guess it's payback time for all the attacks on Froome or something.

How anyone who knows the sport could defend Froome is a question–I don't really get why anyone would think he's clean. Root for him all you want, fandom ain't rational, but to defend him as clean or "I'm not sure" strikes me as willful ignorance.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

And how many people on this thread have claimed that? One. It is quite obvious that this thread has been set up as another bash Froome/Sky thread. There are plenty of others (2 Sky and one Froome).

Just read the recent posts. Most have moved onto the topic of Sky.

Then you have BroDeal claiming that they get no results after July. Really? Last I looked in the previous Vueltas they achieved 2, 3 and 4. Uran podiumed at Lombardy. Throw in International events and you have 2 in WC, 2 in Olympics RR and 1 and 3 in Olympic TT.

Marginal gains don't work for the Non-Tenerife gang? Really? Uran just got 2 in the Giro. And again, you can look at the previous paragraph for other results for EBH and Uran.

BroDeal says there is hypocrisy with the people that don't call out Froome but call out Horner. It must work the other way then. People seem to be coming out with the old classics. He was always talented, the field was too dirty when he came to Europe, they made me do it. If you used those with most other riders you would be ridiculed. Laughable. (Note The excuses themselves might even be valid but its these same clowns that have a fit if you use them for other riders).

Funny how it is mostly Americans finding excuses for Horner. And they are the same bunch that always go on about Brits coming up with excuses for Sky.

Funny how BroDeal is not questioning any of them and just reverts to type with the 'marginal gains' line.

Oh, and I mentioned Hincapie not as an attack on Horner but he was another rider that was meant to be 'tearing it' up in the States. How good was he? Well, no one will probably ever really know since doping makes it impossible to gauge him to his peers (Not just his doping but other around him). The same could be said for Horner.

At least TheHog was entertaining in his trolling. Well, sometimes. Well, once. Maybe...

 

[BroDeal]

And how many people on this thread have claimed that? One. It is quite obvious that this thread has been set up as another bash Froome/Sky thread. There are plenty of others (2 Sky and one Froome).

Just read the recent posts. Most have moved onto the topic of Sky.

Then you have BroDeal claiming that they get no results after July. Really? Last I looked in the previous Vueltas they achieved 2, 3 and 4. Uran podiumed at Lombardy. Throw in International events and you have 2 in WC, 2 in Olympics RR and 1 and 3 in Olympic TT.

Marginal gains don't work for the Non-Tenerife gang? Really? Uran just got 2 in the Giro. And again, you can look at the previous paragraph for other results for EBH and Uran.

BroDeal says there is hypocrisy with the people that don't call out Froome but call out Horner. It must work the other way then. People seem to be coming out with the old classics. He was always talented, the field was too dirty when he came to Europe, they made me do it. If you used those with most other riders you would be ridiculed. Laughable. (Note The excuses themselves might even be valid but its these same clowns that have a fit if you use them for other riders).

Funny how it is mostly Americans finding excuses for Horner. And they are the same bunch that always go on about Brits coming up with excuses for Sky.

Funny how BroDeal is not questioning any of them and just reverts to type with the 'marginal gains' line.

Oh, and I mentioned Hincapie not as an attack on Horner but he was another rider that was meant to be 'tearing it' up in the States. How good was he? Well, no one will probably ever really know since doping makes it impossible to gauge him to his peers (Not just his doping but other around him). The same could be said for Horner.

At least TheHog was entertaining in his trolling. Well, sometimes. Well, once. Maybe...

The difference between me and you is that I am not dumb enough to think that anyone competitive in the general classification of a grand tour is clean. It is hilarious to watch the usual suspects in a hissy fit because the same arguments they use for Froome and Wiggins are being thrown back in their faces. What makes Horner so perfect is the usual talking points used for Froome can be better applied to Horner. Raw talent? Horner is a rider who was recognized by all his domestic peers as madly talented. Weight loss? Horner had a documented history of surviving on junk food until he went back to Europe. Late bloomer? Horner has them all beat there.

Forza Horner! Give those cheating Brits what for.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

The difference between me and you is that I am not dumb enough to think that anyone competitive in the general classification of a grand tour is clean. It is hilarious to watch the usual suspects in a hissy fit because the same arguments they use for Froome and Wiggins are being thrown back in their faces. What makes Horner so perfect is the usual talking points used for Froome can be better applied to Horner. Raw talent? Horner is a rider who was recognized by all his domestic peers as madly talented. Weight loss? Horner had a documented history of surviving on junk food until he went back to Europe. Late bloomer? Horner has them all beat there.

Forza Horner! Give those cheating Brits what for.

Who is having a hissy fit? Just because people reply to you you think they are having a hissy fit. Clearly the idea of a forum is beyond you.

As usual you bypass any of the arguments (even the ones you raise). With the exception of Foxy I don't know anyone who has been remotely upset because Horner is winning. The funny thing is watching you and others justify Horner with the same arguments that you berate Armstrong and others with.

What about Horner's comments on Armstrong. Always get's raised with Wiggins. Isn't there a thread devoted to just that. Why don't you start one on Horner? Funny how you don't comment on that.

Please continue on BroStrong... your hypocrisy is getting to epic proportions. or should I say BroPortions.

 

[BroDeal]

Looks like another sad soul who missed out on the visit by the Ghost of Grand Tours' Past. Don't worry, folks. The Ghost of Grand Tours' Future always gets them in the end.

Forza Horner!

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Looks like another sad soul who missed out on the visit by the Ghost of Grand Tours' Past. Don't worry, folks. The Ghost of Grand Tours' Future always gets them in the end.

Forza Horner!

BroCrastination - The practice of avoiding the salient points of a thread so you can focus on irrelevant ones.

 

[red_flanders]

It is quite obvious that this thread has been set up as another bash Froome/Sky thread.

As long as there are outrageous performances, and in particular by teams who make grandiose claims of cleanliness, there will be threads bashing those riders and teams on every cycling forum.

It's not about "Sky" or "Froome" in particular, they're just the flavor of the year. Now Horner is taking a bunch of heat. It isn't personal or national folks.

 

[red_flanders]

Oh, and I mentioned Hincapie not as an attack on Horner but he was another rider that was meant to be 'tearing it' up in the States. How good was he? Well, no one will probably ever really know since doping makes it impossible to gauge him to his peers (Not just his doping but other around him). The same could be said for Horner.

Did Hincapie have some long career in the States I missed? I didn't catch him "tearing it up" except in the odd race when he was not in Europe.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Did Hincapie have some long career in the States I missed? I didn't catch him "tearing it up" except in the odd race when he was not in Europe.

Was he not competing (and winning) with people a few years older than himself when he was in the youth categories?

 

[red_flanders]

Was he not competing (and winning) with people a few years older than himself when he was in the youth categories?

Sure, but I don't know decent pro rider in any country who wasn't.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Sure, but I don't know decent pro rider in any country who wasn't.

And if most of the top riders (at around that age) are picked up by European teams wouldn't the national scene in America be watered down to some extent. So the logical question would be to wonder just how competitive those races were? So by winning them are you really showing yourself to be that talented relative to (American) riders in Europe?