THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSION REPORT #1

[Lyon]

It may not be Western (US and UK led) propaganda, but i'd like to see similar enthusiasm and perseverance in catching cheats in the US and UK. Are people really naive to think that UK didn't drastically improve in the last 5-10 years in Olympic sports? You don't have to look to far back. You can just look at London 2012, and cycling results over the past few years.

Nah, it's only the Russians and the Turks (and some Bulgarians) that use drugs in modern sport. The rest of us is past that stage where greed, money, power and adulation play a part in our actions. Angels, they call us.

 

[gooner]

I think there is a wider issue in all this as well.

Reading all this today, with the athletes in this environment, deciding to dope was not a simple yes or no issue.

I was just listening to Jamie Baulch and he was having a go at the Russian athletes but when it is as systematic and widespread as this on an enormous scale, I don't think anyone can say for certain that they wouldn't have succumbed to doping if they were in this circle as well.

Don't get me wrong the athletes involved deserve criticism, but on a personal level, I would have dread to have been around it.

I think that would be the case no matter how vehemently against doping you are.

 

[the sceptic]

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

 

[The Hitch]

It may not be Western (US and UK led) propaganda, but i'd like to see similar enthusiasm and perseverance in catching cheats in the US and UK. Are people really naive to think that UK didn't drastically improve in the last 5-10 years in Olympic sports? You don't have to look to far back. You can just look at London 2012, and cycling results over the past few years.

You are preaching to the choir, here I think. We all want the western doping revealed as much as the eastern.

 

[gooner]

It's also going to interesting to see how FIFA respond to Pound saying Vitaly Mutko was complicit in all this.

 

[Lyon]

It may not be Western (US and UK led) propaganda, but i'd like to see similar enthusiasm and perseverance in catching cheats in the US and UK. Are people really naive to think that UK didn't drastically improve in the last 5-10 years in Olympic sports? You don't have to look to far back. You can just look at London 2012, and cycling results over the past few years.

You are preaching to the choir, here I think. We all want the western doping revealed as much as the eastern.

More so I would say. Especially since there seems to be a difference in the modus operandi between the two 'camps'.

 

[the sceptic]

It may not be Western (US and UK led) propaganda, but i'd like to see similar enthusiasm and perseverance in catching cheats in the US and UK. Are people really naive to think that UK didn't drastically improve in the last 5-10 years in Olympic sports? You don't have to look to far back. You can just look at London 2012, and cycling results over the past few years.

There's a lot of naïve people out there who think "doping begins at Calais" (phrase someone posted on here yesterday). But yes, you'd be pretty credulous to believe that transformations like ours (I mean team GB across all sports, not just cycling) have been 100% clean. Yes, national lottery money effectively transformed amateur sports into pro. Yes, there's been a lot of hard work. But in the current climate, there's gonna be a lot of scepticism until there is true transparency across all sports.

I think in botland people actually believe GB could be 100% cleans and still get more medals than a country who systematically dopes everyone.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

WADA report devastatingly critical of doping in Russia

 

[thehog]

Re:

WADA report devastatingly critical of doping in Russia

The problem its not just Russia but its also the IAAF. That gets lost in the headlines. If the IAAF accept bribers from Russia then they accept them from elsewhere as well.

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

WADA report devastatingly critical of doping in Russia

The problem its not just Russia but its also the IAAF. That gets lost in the headlines. If the IAAF accept bribers from Russia then they accept them from elsewhere as well.

I think that's where the Interpol investigation comes in. I read earlier that parts of the report were left out due to the ongoing criminal investigation.

Obviously it's not just exclusively a Russian problem, but I'm still hugely interested in Russian involvement in other sports.

For instance Vitaly Mutko, sports minster, FIFA ex-co member and organising the 2018 World Cup. There is a nice link there to another sport. The same orgainising committee that destroyed all computers and data relating to their World Cup bid.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

If Russia doesn’t clean up, “the outcome may be that there are no Russian track and field athletes in Rio,” Pound said.

But he also said there may still be time for Russia to avoid that, if it starts reforming immediately.

“I think they can do it, I hope they can,” Pound said.

That seems like an unnecessary level of optimism.

Why would anyone think, or believe, that the Russian authorities are capable of what would essentially amount to a complete and total transformation of both ethics and procedures, especially within such a narrow timeline?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

WADA report devastatingly critical of doping in Russia

The problem its not just Russia but its also the IAAF. That gets lost in the headlines. If the IAAF accept bribers from Russia then they accept them from elsewhere as well.

This.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

What I find weird is that Russia has had tons of positives in recent years, so that sample destruction must either have been pretty selective, or it must have happened in a different time period (like maybe they got a warning and were trying to make up for it by busting lots of athletes?) To the people who have read the report, what sounds more likely?

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

Maybe you'd rather they looked the other way?

 

[Benotti69]

Russia had a state 'sponsored' doping program.

Yet other nations finished above them at 2012 olympics?

Some nations need to look at themselves and ask the question, when we throw the Russians over the cliff should their own nations be joining them?

Looking at you USA, China and GB

Travis Tygart has some explaining to do!

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re:

I'm not remotely shocked they destroyed samples. For example, they announced that documents related to the bid for the 2018 football world cup had been unaccountably lost / destroyed and no one blinked an eyelid. They're quite insouciant about this type of thing.

What I will be (not shocked but) taken aback by, is if the IAAF negotiate this down into "medals taken away" when it clearly should be "Russia banned for foreseeable future". yes I know the report's recommendations are not binding. But if they do not ban Russia after this, the IAAF's last shred of credibility just flew away on the wind.

I believe Russians have some intel on lord Coe and other current IAAF bigwigs, so that they have a position to negotiate a deal. Result of which will likely be more closer to stripping the medals than completely banning the country from IAAF competitions. Given that FSB was involved controlling Moscow lab, I'm almost sure of it.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

What I find weird is that Russia has had tons of positives in recent years, so that sample destruction must either have been pretty selective, or it must have happened in a different time period (like maybe they got a warning and were trying to make up for it by busting lots of athletes?) To the people who have read the report, what sounds more likely?

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

Maybe you'd rather they looked the other way?

No he and many here would like WADA to look at all ways. Not one or the other.

 

[Benotti69]

WADA playing the game as much as anyone here. Cherry pick the cheats. This is probably designed to milk even more money from Russia.

 

[gooner]

Re:

WADA playing the game as much as anyone here. Cherry pick the cheats. This is probably designed to milk even more money from Russia.

They're acting on Seppelt's brilliant journalism.

Did you not watch the press conference?

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

What I find weird is that Russia has had tons of positives in recent years, so that sample destruction must either have been pretty selective, or it must have happened in a different time period (like maybe they got a warning and were trying to make up for it by busting lots of athletes?) To the people who have read the report, what sounds more likely?

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

Maybe you'd rather they looked the other way?

No he and many here would like WADA to look at all ways. Not one or the other.

We all do but you can only act on what's given to you in the first place.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

WADA playing the game as much as anyone here. Cherry pick the cheats. This is probably designed to milk even more money from Russia.

They're acting on Seppelt's brilliant journalism.

Did you not watch the press conference?

I would be very surprised if WADA doesn't know what is going on here. When Seppelt blew the lid on Russia, they had to investigate.

WADA are as much part of the problem in doping and the dopers and the enabling federations.

 

[frenchfry]

It's pretty easy to be cynical about doping and corruption in sports these days.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

What I find weird is that Russia has had tons of positives in recent years, so that sample destruction must either have been pretty selective, or it must have happened in a different time period (like maybe they got a warning and were trying to make up for it by busting lots of athletes?) To the people who have read the report, what sounds more likely?

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

Maybe you'd rather they looked the other way?

No he and many here would like WADA to look at all ways. Not one or the other.

We all do but you can only act on what's given to you in the first place.

No they are only investigating the "Russian issue", nothing else.

The commission was not asked to examine separate doping claims made in August when The Sunday Times and a German broadcaster claimed leaked blood tests from 5,000 athletes over 11 years showed an "extraordinary extent of cheating". The IAAF said the claims were "sensationalist and infuriating". Wada is investigating these claims separately.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34765444

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

Wada is investigating these claims separately.

Then I expect the following trend to continue.

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

What I find weird is that Russia has had tons of positives in recent years, so that sample destruction must either have been pretty selective, or it must have happened in a different time period (like maybe they got a warning and were trying to make up for it by busting lots of athletes?) To the people who have read the report, what sounds more likely?

"independent"? right. More like "make Russia the scapegoat in order to preserve the image that western countries are cleans"

not unlike the propaganda we see mainstream media about politics by the way.

Maybe you'd rather they looked the other way?

No he and many here would like WADA to look at all ways. Not one or the other.

We all do but you can only act on what's given to you in the first place.

No they are only investigating the "Russian issue", nothing else.

The commission was not asked to examine separate doping claims made in August when The Sunday Times and a German broadcaster claimed leaked blood tests from 5,000 athletes over 11 years showed an "extraordinary extent of cheating". The IAAF said the claims were "sensationalist and infuriating". Wada is investigating these claims separately.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34765444

Interpol have taken this on a global scale on the back of this inquiry. There is more to come from this report.

Interpol, meanwhile, has said it is to coordinate a global investigation - led by France - into "an alleged international corruption scam involving sports officials as well as athletes suspected of a doping cover-up" following WADA's probe into doping.

The statement added: "In the framework of Operation Augeas launched by Interpol, the world police body is now working with member countries potentially linked to the inquiry, including Singapore, to seek assistance in coordinating a global investigative network and support the criminal investigation on the basis of the intelligence gathered by the Independent Commission.

The body says it hopes to publish the full version of its report by the end of 2015.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11984050/Russia-should-be-banned-from-international-athletics-including-Olympics-for-doping-says-Wada-report.html

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

It's pretty easy to be cynical about doping and corruption in sports these days.

I think being cynical is the default position nowadays for sport. Heck the federations have created that default with their corruption from IOC all the way down, taking FIFA, UEFA, IAAF, to a minority sport like cycling.

It appears to be a sanitised version of organised crime. No one gets killed but they sure can ruin your life if you dont play by their rules.