The Landis Affair - Part 2

[JPM London]

I'm not an Armstrong fan,but LeMond is just motivated by hate , nothing more.
My English writing is not the best but just read his quotes make me feel sick.

No, you're right: You're not a fan... A puppet, yes, but fan - no.

 

[Ferminal]

I'm not an Armstrong fan,but LeMond is just motivated by hate , nothing more.
My English writing is not the best but just read his quotes make me feel sick.

So for you, LeMond is more nausea inducing than Bruyneel, Armstrong, McQuaid, Roche etc etc etc combined?

(Obviously you would've registered earlier if these people made you equally sick).

 

[Tubeless]

FIS is also the organizer of every race. So it's really hard to compare.

Not exactly. National races are organizes by national federations. FIS may sanction them for points etc. but is not the de-facto organizer - doping control is done locally. FIS is responsbible for anti-doping controls only for world cups & world champs.

Their problem is that FIS does not have enough money to do any out-of-competition controls - this is left for national anti-doping organizations. The system works well in most countries, but depends on local (government) funding and local officials testing their own athletes. The FIS sanctions are effective, however - Austria had been sanctioned before and had no one participating at the Vancouver Olympics thanks in part to their doping scandal at the Torino games.

 

[lightandlongshadows]

*for some reason no one (to my knowledge) has come out and said Lemond used x,y and z.....and boy if he did, someone could have made hay....but because it has not happened it points to a clean rider....

Let's not forget that back when riders were given stuff without necessarily knowing what they were taking. Lemond may believe those were just vitamins but I seriously doubt it, it's possible that he still couldn't tell you exactly what may have been administered to him. Given the culture the word unbeliveable comes to mind, regarding his level of success totally clean.

 

[Oldman]

Not exactly. National races are organizes by national federations. FIS may sanction them for points etc. but is not the de-facto organizer - doping control is done locally. FIS is responsbible for anti-doping controls only for world cups & world champs.

Their problem is that FIS does not have enough money to do any out-of-competition controls - this is left for national anti-doping organizations. The system works well in most countries, but depends on local (government) funding and local officials testing their own athletes. The FIS sanctions are effective, however - Austria had been sanctioned before and had no one participating at the Vancouver Olympics thanks in part to their doping scandal at the Torino games.

This is helpful and an example of the Events taking some preeminence over the UCI. It would rely on the National federation's integrity which is questionable in the US, Spain, Italy...But still; Dr. Mas touched on the likely departure of current and past UCI officials from the scene and there lies an opportunity for a rider-based replacement. One that would be realistic about the importance of the major cycling events and the need for a stable, clean sporting environment for them to prosper. It would take a serious man to do the job and I can't name one off hand.

 

[CPAvelo]

Lemond could not have ever possibly dreamed up a more amazing scenario.

Indeed. The irony is astonishing.

I must admit I was nonplussed with Lemond during the prior legal matters with Trek and Armstrong. But, looking back now in light of present developments, I am very impressed by Lemond's character and carriage throughout the entire proceedings. He may not be the most eloquent, but he strikes me as having the integrity that stems from a pursuit of doing the right thing even when doing so made him look like a fool. He has been much maligned and I hope he is vindicated as sincere human being.

I hope Lemond is right about others coming forward and for a real change to occur in the sport. If Armstrong is exposed as a fraud, then I hope he is dethroned and that he is appropriately punished.

 

[lean mean &green]

I must admit I was nonplussed with Lemond during the prior legal matters with Trek and Armstrong. But, looking back now in light of present developments, I am very impressed by Lemond's character and carriage throughout the entire proceedings. He may not be the most eloquent, but he strikes me as having the integrity that stems from a pursuit of doing the right thing even when doing so made him look like a fool. He has been much maligned and I hope he is vindicated as sincere human being.

i'm not sure what lemond's motivation is. it's hard to believe he'd risk so much personally to reform cycling for genuine or altruistic purposes. in some ways it's fair to say lemond's acting upon self-interest. he's been back and forth with trek/LA a few times so a slight bit of revenge could be in play. he's also re-establishing himself as the greatest american cyclist of all time (which he is).

the problem for anyone trying to discredit GL is....his self-interest is right in line with and encourages the changes necessary for the greater good anyway. his motivation is really irrelevant. maybe he's too damn honest for his own good, maybe understandably he's got a bone to pick, or maybe it's a bit of both. which one doesn't really matter.

lemond's legacy grows stronger every single day. he needs to choose his words very carefully in public going forward. people are starting to listen and he's gaining traction. if he does it right, focusing on changing the sport for the better and less on individuals, he will have the last laugh.

 

[L'arriviste]

i'm not sure what lemond's motivation is. it's hard to believe he'd risk so much personally to reform cycling for genuine or altruistic purposes. in some ways it's fair to say lemond's acting upon self-interest. he's been back and forth with trek/LA a few times so a slight bit of revenge could be in play. he's also re-establishing himself as the greatest american cyclist of all time (which he is).

the problem for anyone trying to discredit GL is....his self-interest is right in line with and encourages the changes necessary for the greater good anyway. his motivation is really irrelevant. maybe he's too damn honest for his own good, maybe understandably he's got a bone to pick, or maybe it's a bit of both. which one doesn't really matter.

lemond's legacy grows stronger every single day. he needs to choose his words very carefully in public going forward. people are starting to listen and he's gaining traction. if he does it right, focusing on changing the sport for the better and less on individuals, he will have the last laugh.

Perhaps it's his age and position in life. Right behind that horrible tranche of greed-stricken baby boomers and their puppets. With all the stuff that's now out there, the decks are cleared. He has the room for this and an itch he wants to scratch. I hope like you that he will continue to run with it.

 

[Oldman]

i'm not sure what lemond's motivation is. it's hard to believe he'd risk so much personally to reform cycling for genuine or altruistic purposes. in some ways it's fair to say lemond's acting upon self-interest. he's been back and forth with trek/LA a few times so a slight bit of revenge could be in play. he's also re-establishing himself as the greatest american cyclist of all time (which he is).

the problem for anyone trying to discredit GL is....his self-interest is right in line with and encourages the changes necessary for the greater good anyway. his motivation is really irrelevant. maybe he's too damn honest for his own good, maybe understandably he's got a bone to pick, or maybe it's a bit of both. which one doesn't really matter.

lemond's legacy grows stronger every single day. he needs to choose his words very carefully in public going forward. people are starting to listen and he's gaining traction. if he does it right, focusing on changing the sport for the better and less on individuals, he will have the last laugh.

You said that very well and I've been a Lemond skeptic before. I don't think he is qualified to pursue this movement as much more than a figurehead, though. Someone else that has a lower profile for self-promotion and personal interest could better administer some reform with the help of Lemond and some other deans of the sport. Who those players would be I don't know.

 

[buckwheat]

Perhaps it's his age and position in life. Right behind that horrible tranche of greed-stricken baby boomers and their puppets. With all the stuff that's now out there, the decks are cleared. He has the room for this and an itch he wants to scratch. I hope like you that he will continue to run with it.

LeMond is a baby boomer.

 

[L'arriviste]

LeMond is a baby boomer.

Is he? Yes, sorry, you're quite right.

Apparently that can go right up to 1964. I stand corrected.

 

[red_flanders]

i'm not sure what lemond's motivation is. it's hard to believe he'd risk so much personally to reform cycling for genuine or altruistic purposes. in some ways it's fair to say lemond's acting upon self-interest.

That may (I don't know you, so I want to emphasize "may") say more about your thought process than his.

He may be doing exactly that. For exactly genuine and altruistic reasons.

 

[buckwheat]

That may (I don't know you, so I want to emphasize "may") say more about your thought process than his.

He may be doing exactly that. For exactly genuine and altruistic reasons.

I was thinking the same thing but you put it in a more diplomatic way than I probably would have. (To my detriment btw.)

The guy is almost 50 and has been through a lot in his life. Apparently he's financially well off. I don't find it hard to believe at all that he's doing this for altruistic reasons.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't find it hard to believe at all that he's doing this for altruistic reasons.

+1

He's fought a few battles and been consistently involved in the sport for his entire adult life. I don't think his message has changed a helluva lot. He appears to have had a passion for this sport for most of his life.

 

[red_flanders]

Time, history and the truth appear to be friendly to Lemond.

 

[lean mean &green]

That may (I don't know you, so I want to emphasize "may") say more about your thought process than his.

He may be doing exactly that. For exactly genuine and altruistic reasons.

what it says about my personality is that i'm skeptical of everyone. what's the alternative, blind faith? that's hasn't worked too great for cycling so far.

for GL it may be altruistic or it may be self interest. it appears to me to be a bit of both and there's nothing wrong with that. the worst thing would be to pretend it's not there and to hold him in too high a regard. i applaud GL's bravery. i think if he is tactful he could have a valuable role in reform however my enthusiasm is tempered and my expectations realistic.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

....the worst thing would be to pretend it's not there and to hold him in too high a regard. i applaud GL's bravery. i think if he is tactful he could have a valuable role in reform however my enthusiasm is tempered and my expectations realistic.

Yes it's silly to hold anyone in too high a regard, regardless of their integrity, nobody is right all the time.

As far as personal interest vs business interest goes, it would have been in Greg's best interest financially to STFU and play the omerta game. But he didn't....he has constantly pushed the point about doping. I think his efforts to recover some ground against LA/trek through law suits have to be seen in the context of the financial sacrifices he knowingly made when publicly commenting on doping.

Greg is one of the few people in a strong enough position to go head to head with some of the key players; I suspect that's part of what motivates him to do so.

 

[Polish]

Time, history and the truth appear to be friendly to Lemond.

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

But many others do not find friends in deceptive egotistical vindictive vendettas.

Hopefully other riders will stand up in defense of Pro Cycling.

Roche and Delgado have already weighed in against the so called "BloodBath" that is aimed at Lance, but will spill over to hurt all of Cycling.

Eddy needs to lead the way. Big Mig needs to comment too.
King Kelly. Fear! Fire! Foes! Awake!

 

[MacRoadie]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

Riiiiiiiiiiight....

 

[Anonymous]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

But many others do not find friends in deceptive egotistical vindictive vendettas.

Hopefully other riders will stand up in defense of Pro Cycling.

Pure sophistry.

 

[Race Radio]

Well, they are "friendly" only in the eyes of the haters,
since this is all about Greg's feeling towards Lance.

Did you actually read the interview? There is one sentence about Lance.

 

[lean mean &green]

if it was unclear...

the reason i'd like GL to stop referencing individuals, at least for the near future, is because it leaves him open to ridiculous claims of "vindictiveness" not because i support the indivuduals he's mentioned in any way.

 

[Polish]

Did you actually read the interview? There is one sentence about Lance.

Yes I actually read the interview.

Did YOU actually read the interview too?

It is almost entirely Anti-Lance.

Sure, Greg says "Lance" once and "me" or "I" 15 times.....
deceptive egotistical vindictive vendetta

 

[Race Radio]

Yes I actually read the interview.

Did YOU actually read the interview too?

It is almost entirely Anti-Lance.

Sure, Greg says "Lance" once and "me" or "I" 15 times.....
deceptive egotistical vindictive vendetta

Why is it that when people mention cycling the only thing the Groupies think of is their man crush?

Greg talks about the wide variety of issues in the sport. Lance could retire again tomorrow and these issues would remain.

 

[Polish]

Why is it that when people mention cycling the only thing the Groupies think of is their man crush?

Greg talks about the wide variety of issues in the sport. Lance could retire again tomorrow and these issues would remain.

Drat! The Troll, ManCrush, FanBoy namecalling stratagem.
I should have known better than to criticize Mr LeMond.
Curse you Race Radio, you win.