The latest Astana affair

[dolophonic]

So the people who ask the questions are the one's trashing cycling?
That's a weird way of looking at it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There is a considerable difference between "respectfully questioning authority" and character assassination.
.

I am sure you find my use of CRM bizarre as you obviously dont adhere to it - when you make statements that anyone who has a negative view on LA is a "hater" and must hate excellence, is that not character assassination?

 

[Race Radio]

erm.. i do.. sorry..

Too much Sky TV

 

[Anonymous]

Too much Sky TV

usenet.. and the daily show...

 

[workingclasshero]

Too much Sky TV

it really is a pretty common phrase for uk people to use i'm afraid

 

[pmcg76]

Your use of CRM in relation to this forum where the a large number of people do nothing but trash nearly everything and everyone associated with cycling, is bizarre to say the least. There is a considerable difference between "respectfully questioning authority" and character assassination.

I believe any rational person would believe that someone's signature line gives a very good insight into a persons character. This was chosen as a statement that person wanted to make repetitively.

Here is the real deal, for too long cycling fans lived in your world, the one where nothing should ever be questioned and everything should be taken at face value. You know what happened to us, Festina happened, Pantani dying happened, Operation Puerto happened, countless riders getting busted happened.

The innocence is long gone, the time for unquestioning fandom is over. It is hard to believe that anyone who has followed pro cycling for any length of time cannot feel this way. We want to help expose the frauds and the problems in cycling. We live in hope that things will get better but time after time, we get kicked in the teeth. Still, we love cycling, its our sport but we are realistic enough to know what goes on in the world of pro cycling.

If you want to live in the world of Liggett & Sherwin, fine, dont bother coming here. Given a choice of what people believe, what is said on this forum or what Phil & Paul spout, I find this forum far more more realistic.

Your average Lance apologist rarely offers anything constructive and too easily gloss over the stuff they dont like e.g. Simeoni affair. We on the other hand, examine what each thing really means in regards to everything. There are some more extreme than others but the Lance 'haters' have proven to be the most knowledgable posters on every cycling relating subject, not just the Lance threads where we usually find the Lance apologists. Mountain Goat and Dimspace are the only 2 current posters that are not 'haters' that post in a wide range of threads.

The rest of your lot, we never see anywhere other than the Lance threads with the usual line that we are all stupid, one dimensional haters. I never mind debating with Lance fans who show some realism, again Dimspace, Mountain Goat but its the type who are willing to suspend reality to back their beliefs that we find frustrating.

I dont like Lance so I am not going to sign up to some website to read undying worshipping of the guy. Perhaps I could have 20 years ago but then thats where you guys live.

 

[buckwheat]

I don't go here often because the I find revolting pathetic drivel that the most of the excellence haters on this forum spew. However if the administrators threaten banning sprocket because he takes issue with "Race Radio" and "Thought for Food". It is clear that they are part of the problem.

I hate excellence. I also hate our freedoms. Good Lord, are you GWB?

 

[Murray]

Let me apologize for not reading through 16 pages of analysis... but...

Finding stuff in garbage is not proof of anything. It is not a lab sample. There is no chain-of-custody. Anyone with a grudge could pay the garbage boy to plant anything they want.

I'm not claiming this is what happened, only that this whole thing adds nothing to our understanding of what may or may not have transpired at the Tour.

 

[VeloCity]

I find it pathetic that some people on this forum so hate excellence they believe anyone who achieves it is a cheat.

Wait, so you believe that a clean Lance beat doped-up Ullrich, Heras, Zulle, Basso, Vino, Hamilton, Landis, Pantani, Beloki, Botero, Rumsas, Kloden, Rasmussen, etc etc etc 7 years in a row? I just want to see you put it in writing.

 

[buckwheat]

I'm not claiming this is what happened, only that this whole thing adds nothing to our understanding of what may or may not have transpired at the Tour.

Our understanding that the VAM's were extraterrestrial? Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Ferminal]

Latest [insert team here] affair. Could be anyone.

Nevertheless read the first comment on the article on Eurosport, frickin hilarious.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/13102009/58/tour-de-france-tour-syringes-under-analysis.html

Good laugh!

 

[Murray]

Our understanding that the VAM's were extraterrestrial? Thanks for the clarification.

The VAM's were what they were. If they find nothing, it doesn't mean the riders were clean, and if they find something it doesn't mean the riders doped.

As the old scientific saying goes... "Garbage in, garbage out." It's meaningless analysis.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Latest [insert team here] affair. Could be anyone.

Nevertheless read the first comment on the article on Eurosport, frickin hilarious.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/13102009/58/tour-de-france-tour-syringes-under-analysis.html

It's funny but #6 is even funnier because it comes straight out of the handbook.

 

[rata de sentina]

I suspect that this will amount to nothing just like the recent retrospective testing by AFLD. AFLD is doing a lot of media posturing at the moment the problem is that all the fireworks are obscured by the accompanying smokescreen. I have no idea what is the underlying reasons are and the timing is quite curious. We shall see in due course.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I suspect that this will amount to nothing just like the recent retrospective testing by AFLD. AFLD is doing a lot of media posturing at the moment the problem is that all the fireworks are obscured by the accompanying smokescreen. I have no idea what is the underlying reasons are and the timing is quite curious. We shall see in due course.

While I would broadly agree with your sentiments about the manner and the timing of this disclosure- it has absolutely nothing to do with the AFLD!

 

[ggusta]

Sure, as soon as the French extradite their child rapist, Polanski to the US. Of course doping in a professional sport is a far more serious offense.

OUCH. Touche.

 

[ggusta]

I don't hate people - [edit]- I just dislike ignorance.

....and yet...you post messages to an internet forum....

...what was that line about insanity and doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

 

[Oldnell]

So the people who ask the questions are the one's trashing cycling?
That's a weird way of looking at it.

Everything you ask boils down to one thing. You challenge anyone who does not believe your theories to prove a negative. Yes you are trashing cycling but fortunately very few people beyond this forum and others like it, agree with you.

 

[Anonymous]

so out of intrest.. as well as astana...

who do we think the other teams are who have been disposing of their rubbish carelessly.....?

 

[Oldnell]

I am sure you find my use of CRM bizarre as you obviously dont adhere to it - when you make statements that anyone who has a negative view on LA is a "hater" and must hate excellence, is that not character assassination?

I did not make that statement, you did!! I made a general statement that people who go to the extremes that some on this forum do to "prove" anyone who wins is a cheater, are haters of excellence in general. These same people are the ones who violently attack LA and denigrate and put down anyone who disagrees with them. This is character assassination!! I did not attack any single person, however you appear to believe it applies to you. Guilty conscience?

I will give you credit for not having a nasty signature line.

You will have the last word for a while because I have better things to do with my time than answer you.

 

[ggusta]

erm.. i do.. sorry..

but are you here or there?

 

[Oldnell]

I hate excellence. I also hate our freedoms. Good Lord, are you GWB?

No, he made mistakes, but was a lot better than what the Americans have now.

 

[ggusta]

So the people who ask the questions are the one's trashing cycling?
That's a weird way of looking at it.

Yes, if we could all just start being pollyanna's and bow down to liars cheats and thieves we would all be in a state of bliss. Not just he who cannot be named, but any and all. Every time you talk about cheating the fanboys *** their ears up like it MUST be about 'their guy'.

I stopped letting 'my guy' being 'my guy' (ick, that looks kind of queer on the screen). Problem solved.

 

[ggusta]

No, he made mistakes, but was a lot better than what the Americans have now.

Oh jessuuuusss aitch ..... please no politics, not now. This flame fest is too good.

 

[ggusta]

Wait, so you believe that a clean Lance beat doped-up Ullrich, Heras, Zulle, Basso, Vino, Hamilton, Landis, Pantani, Beloki, Botero, Rumsas, Kloden, Rasmussen, etc etc etc 7 years in a row? I just want to see you put it in writing.

not only that, but he also lost to a doped up alberto contador and a most likely doped andy schleck. So make it 8 out of 10 with 2 years off to do chlamydia research and we got ourselves a deal.