The Monuments Men – Or who will win all 5 of them?

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

I remember reading an article once that quoted a slovakian kid as having learned the colors "yellow as the sun, blue as the sky, green as Sagan" or something like that. I found that pretty cool

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

In general. It is not about winning, people knows the teams, the competition, they discuss the strategy. The cycling has its own column in the newspaper.
Just for your imagination. The article about PR in the best online newspaper is third most read article in 7 days !!! (after the attack in Sweden and football player Weiss who was called "not guilty" stopped by police, driving drunk the car full of 10 people ( Mercedes G).

https://www.sme.sk/?ref=menu#

I am sure only Belgium and Colombia can match up with the popularity of cycling among the people.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re: Re:

I agree De Vlaeminck was a better one-day rider, although Kelly was also damn good.

Both are top level. No doubt, difficult to compare.

Kelly getting 2nd in RVV, flying to Spain and winning three stages plus overall of Pais Vasco and then returning to the North to win in Roubaix seems out of this world. That year of 1984 must have been one of the strongest years in the history of the sport. Way over 4.000 points on the current CQRanking.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

When people say GT riders are the most known the ones who win the Tour, those who just won the Vuelta are less well known than multiple monument winners

You mean Valverde, Ullrich, Rominger, Heras and Fuente are less known than Devolder, Cunego, Gerrans, Van Hooydonck and Duclos-Lassalle?

Ullrich for his Tour win and tour battles, Even Rominger for his Tour battles than his Vuelta wins and if Valverde is not renowned for his Vuelta win (interesting that one you say is less well known also won a GT, a more prestigious one).

Who will be more remembered Cobo or Demare, no doubt Demare

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

In general. It is not about winning, people knows the teams, the competition, they discuss the strategy. The cycling has its own column in the newspaper.
Just for your imagination. The article about PR in the best online newspaper is third most read article in 7 days !!! (after the attack in Sweden and football player Weiss who was called "not guilty" stopped by police, riding drunk the car full of 10 people ( Mercedes G).

https://www.sme.sk/?ref=menu#

That's cool. So it sounds like the interest and take up of cycling won't drift and disappear after he retires or stops winning.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

No one in Great Britain had heard about cycling before SKY. The country was a complete wasteland for cycling in the first hundred+ years of the sport.

some may have heard of Tom Simpson though ... albeight not necessarily from a pure sports perspective ....

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

I still remember a reader comment on SME-online after the third stage of Le Tour 2012 (Sagan won stages 1 and 3 and was 6th in stage 2) which went something like this:
"the guy won 2 stages out of three and was 6th in the second stage, still he is only 15th in overall. What kind of "***" (the slovakian word started with k and is only considered a display of highly ill-mannered behaviour) is this?"

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

No one in Great Britain had heard about cycling before SKY. The country was a complete wasteland for cycling in the first hundred+ years of the sport.

some may have heard of Tom Simpson though ... albeight not necessarily from a pure sports perspective ....

Chris Boardman.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

In general. It is not about winning, people knows the teams, the competition, they discuss the strategy. The cycling has its own column in the newspaper.
Just for your imagination. The article about PR in the best online newspaper is third most read article in 7 days !!! (after the attack in Sweden and football player Weiss who was called "not guilty" stopped by police, riding drunk the car full of 10 people ( Mercedes G).

https://www.sme.sk/?ref=menu#[/quote]
That's cool. So it sounds like the interest and take up of cycling won't drift and disappear after he retires or stops winning.[/quote]

It is difficult to say. People need their heroes. A lot depends on the new generation of the cyclist. If Sagan keeps his standard for few next years I have no doubt. Young guys are riding and they have few good results now. But the state does nothing to support this euphoria. I am sure that Slovakia is on the tail of Europe countries regarding the roads for the cyclist.

Anyway, it is so easy to by cycling fan today inSlovakia when Sagan is animating practically every race he enters.
What I call fanboyism is when your rider is down and week and you travel hundreds of KM just to cheer for him.
3 years ago I went to Switzerland for first 3 stages of TdS and I was on top of one mountain pass waiting for Sagan and of course, he was in the bunch and there were some older couple sitting in the Caravan and watching the race in small TV, few minutes after the bunch was coming grupetto with Cav and Boonen was in it. The couple went out of caravan open the big poster (like 3x6 m) with something like Go Tommeke GO or We love you Tommeke, and I was almost crying. I hope I can be such a fan when Sagan will be down.

 

[loge1884]

Re: Re:

Anyway, it is so easy to by cycling fan today inSlovakia when Sagan is animating practically every race he enters.
What I call fanboyism is when your rider is down and week and you travel hundreds of KM just to cheer for him.
3 years ago I went to Switzerland for first 3 stages of TdS and I was on top of one mountain pass waiting for Sagan and of course, he was in the bunch and there were some older couple sitting in the Caravan and watching the race in small TV, few minutes after the bunch was coming grupetto with Cav and Boonen was in it. The couple went out of caravan open the big poster (like 3x6 m) with something like Go Tommeke GO or We love you Tommeke, and I was almost crying. I hope I can be such a fan when Sagan will be down.

the biggest hype for one single rider I remember having seen was in Giro d'Italia 1984 for Francesco Moser when he made what was considered a final attempt to win a GT .... the hype went a bit sour, as the late Laurent Fignon, his only worthwhile rival for the overall, got spat on and even beaten in the dolomites (where he was clearly stronger than Moser) ... Moser got lucky, as the Stelvio got cancelled last minute and the race had 85km of ITT ...

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Isn't Hinault also - at least partially - remembered as a TdF winner because he's the last French winner?

...in the US for his battle with his teammate LeMond for the Tour. At least for me that was when I began falling for the sport.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Froome will never have in England status similar to Boonen in Belgium nor Sagan in Slovakia.

I would think Slovakia isn't that rich of Top-Level sports greats (apart of ice hockey, but it's now 15 years since they were World Champions ...), so no wonder Peter is highly recognized there .... prior to Peter I am certain all the average Slovakian had ever heard about cycling was "Tour de France" ...

And? He is almost GOD here. He changed the whole country. 6 years ago you could not find one road bicycle on the roads. Now all roads and woods are full of cyclists. Young, old, men, women, kids. People are planning their holidays to see the monuments TDF.
I am sure that RVV and RP were watched by more people than the final of Champions league.

Are people actually now interested in cycling in general, or are there just interested in a Slovak winning (although not so much recently), and gaining attention for the country? If it's the former, I think that's great - I'm sure all the Slovak GVA fans woke up with a hangover this morning. If it's the latter, then that's pretty depressing and the kind of nationalism/tribalism that cycling, and the world in general, can do without imo.

Isn't this part of what the sport needs, to branch out to areas not touched by cycling's majesty? Why would the sport becoming popular in Slovakia because of Sagan's success be something that can be done without? I don't understand this attitude. It's rarely just the former or the latter.

Edit: Added last sentence.

 

[shalgo]

I don't think this has been mentioned earlier in the thread--my apologies if I missed it--but from Lombardia 1983 through LBL 1984, Sean Kelly's results in the five monuments were: 1, 2, 2, 1, 1. That is probably as close to winning five consecutive monuments as anyone will ever come.

 

[Netserk]

Merckx did the same, again from Lombardia to Liege, just with the three wins in the same year (2, 1, 1, 2, 1). Earlier he had a similar run (3, 1, 1, 2, 1).

As a bonus he won the WCRR in the same year he came 2nd in Lombardia, so in 12 months he won three monuments and the worlds and got 2nd in the other two monuments.

 

[Schmenkie]

I still think Greg Van Avermaet can do this. He started cycling quite late so I think he can maintain this level for another 5 years. It's not easy of course because look at Sagan: extremely talented yet still has 'only' 1 monument.

Kwiatkowski might be possible but don't see him winning Roubaix. Although I hope he will focus on classics instead of stage races (which is why he left QuickStep and went to Sky?).

I don't see Gilbert winning in San Remo. Roubaix might be possible though.

For younger prospects like Benoot, Moscon,... it's too soon to tell.

 

[Velolover2]

I don't see why GVA shouldn't be able to win Milano-Sanremo if Kwiatkowski can win it.

I'd actually give GVA a better chance than Kwia who is normally made for hillier races. If Alaphilippe can jump away with Sagan on a flatish climb like Poggio, so can GVA.

In Liege, it's the other way around. It's too hard for GVA, but fairly good for Kwia.

 

[barmaher]

Yeah, I would say that if MSR were to be raced this weekend, GVA would be among the favourites. It is near impossible to predict who will win MSR in any given year, but I would say that GVA has a decent chance of adding it to his palmarés.

 

[DFA123]

I still think Greg Van Avermaet can do this. He started cycling quite late so I think he can maintain this level for another 5 years. It's not easy of course because look at Sagan: extremely talented yet still has 'only' 1 monument.

Kwiatkowski might be possible but don't see him winning Roubaix. Although I hope he will focus on classics instead of stage races (which is why he left QuickStep and went to Sky?).

I don't see Gilbert winning in San Remo. Roubaix might be possible though.

For younger prospects like Benoot, Moscon,... it's too soon to tell.

Motivation for this challenge will stop GVA from even coming close imo. Even if he does manage to stay at the top of the sport for another five years, he need to make up for lost time winning as many RVV and PR as possible. I can't see him deciding at age 35 or simillar age, to give them up for a very outside shot at Liege or Lombardia.

 

[WheelofGear]

Also, winning Flanders or Roubaix at age 35 is much easier than winning Liege/Lombardia at that age (Valverde is an exception to anything).. You need some explosiveness in the hilly races.

 

[trucido]

Good luck to Sagan, GvA or even Kwiatkowski winning any current incarnation of GdL.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

I don't see why GVA shouldn't be able to win Milano-Sanremo if Kwiatkowski can win it.

I'd actually give GVA a better chance than Kwia who is normally made for hillier races. If Alaphilippe can jump away with Sagan on a flatish climb like Poggio, so can GVA.

In Liege, it's the other way around. It's too hard for GVA, but fairly good for Kwia.

Well Van Avermaet was on the Poggio this year, and he couldn't follow nor Kwiat nor Alaphilippe. In my opinion they are more explosive then him, GVA needs a very hard MSR to contest the win, an epic one. He has the engine, his endurance is untouchable in today's peloton, but if the race is not very, very hard I doubt he can win it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yes, GvA would want to not just win one, but preferably 2 RvV's to begin to think about pulling this feat off. Its the race he wants to win the most, its the race that suits him the most. If the stays at this level, no way in hell he will lose against Sagan next year if he stays upright and Sagan isn't dramatically better than 2016. You'd need a 2010 Cancellara to drop GvA.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

Yes, GvA would want to not just win one, but preferably 2 RvV's to begin to think about pulling this feat off. Its the race he wants to win the most, its the race that suits him the most. If the stays at this level, no way in hell he will lose against Sagan next year if he stays upright and Sagan isn't dramatically better than 2016. You'd need a 2010 Cancellara to drop GvA.

Sagan maybe can drop him, but he'll come back

 

[Squire]

I don't see any of the established stars capable of winning all five. If Gilbert had more peak years left, and was able to replicate this form, he could've had a chance. Lombardia will be too hard for the other classics men.

Of the current pros, I think we have to look for someone like Moscon or Benoot to develop into a dominating force. Those seem like they could maybe have the climbing potential needed for Lombardia. They would need a lucky break in Sanremo, though, which doesn't happen often.

If Albanese turns out to be the real deal, he has the skillset to win the four spring monuments. Van der Poel should have the bike handling skills for Roubaix, but I'm under the impression that he could be more of a punchy hilly rider. Van Aert, on the other hand, is maybe too much of a rouleur for Lombardia. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

In this day and age of specialisation, and deep field, I think it'll be next to impossible to win all five. Even if someone has the abilities, all five races are extremely competitive, and so much can happen in them. In addition to that, every rider normally has maybe 7-8 opportunities to ride the monuments while in their peak years. Even less if they need to slim down for LBL or Lombardia, or bulk up for Roubaix.