Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Keldergoat

Sep 6, 2023
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Peyroteo94 said:
How many times did he and Pogacar went alone in a berg? He just hit a wall trying to follow Pogacar all the time. For that reason he was completely cooked after Kwaremont.
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My initital post wasn't to downgrade his performance, I actually found him strong and at times impressive. It was more to showcase how utterly bizarre constant and strong his performances in RvV have been up until now.
 
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jono

Jan 31, 2021
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JoãoRamos said:
Sometimes, the wisest move is simply choosing silence — especially when the point being made rests on an assumed superiority that reality itself contradicted.

For someone supposedly on a superior level, losing the sprint to Mads — who was considered a tier below — makes that hierarchy look a bit less certain.
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Mads is considered a tier below because he is. He is also by far the best sprinter out of that group. Same way that Wout got dusted by Philipsen at P-R 2023 in the sprint, despite Wout being a much stronger rider, on the day and generally. No need to re-shuffle any hierarchies.
 
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Blanco

Jun 6, 2017
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JoãoRamos said:
Sometimes, the wisest move is simply choosing silence — especially when the point being made rests on an assumed superiority that reality itself contradicted.

For someone supposedly on a superior level, losing the sprint to Mads — who was considered a tier below — makes that hierarchy look a bit less certain
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Pogacar lost a sprint to both Van Der Poel and Ganna two weeks ago, so how that reflects on hierarchy?
 
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kingjr

Sep 9, 2012
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JoãoRamos said:
I’m not particularly fond of excuses. Pogačar also crashed at Strade Bianche — we could easily say that affected his chances in MSR. But I prefer to accept defeat with grace.

And no, it doesn’t “compute” — because to me, that’s precisely the kind of reasoning that avoids acknowledging, plainly and irrefutably, that someone else is better. And right now, Pogačar is better. Even Van der Poel himself admitted today that he won’t break the Ronde record while Pogi is around. That speaks volumes.
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There is nothing graceless to me about mentioning these sorts of things, you certainly don't have to deny it if you are specifically asked about it. I understand that fans want to enjoy their rider's success without any ifs and buts, but to me, that doesn't justify shaming their opponents into not disclosing an illness they had in the run-up to a race. Similarly, some fans of van der Poel like to ignore the bad luck that van Aert has had over the years and prefer to run with Roodhooft's narrative that van der Poel is just inherently better.
As to who is the best rider in the world, that is of course Pogacar, and it's so obvious at this point that I can't imagine it would hurt any rider's pride to acknowledge that.
 
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senna6541

Jan 18, 2020
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MVDP won't make excuses, but I will for him. He definitely looked very disappointed - knows he missed a big opp here. With this Spring's form he just needed things to go relatively smoothly to beat Pogi, and between not staying 100% healthy, the crash, and being out of position the 2nd time up, it didn't happen. Hopefully the luck he's typically made for himself the last couple of years comes back next week and he gets number 3 at PR. And hopefully he gets another shot at Pogi next year in top form. He's got to beat Pogi at RVV straight up again to take his legacy to the next level. Can't wait to see him on the MTB this year. The way those guys were flying around the course in Brazil this weekend reminds you why it isn't so easy just to drop in there.
 
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senna6541

Jan 18, 2020
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E_F_ said:
It might impact his legacy, that MvdP has an opponent who is just straight up his superior in RvV.
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He needs to keep beating Pogi whenever they race on the biggest stage at what could be considered a relatively even playground. Races like RVV, Glasgow Worlds, MSR, PR, the old Strade course, etc. Of course the fact that Pogi can compete against him in these types of races and GT's shows why he's the greatest of all-time. Still, if MVDP can continue to go straight up with Pogi on the road and then add some more MTB World Cups and the WC, not bad. Problem is, due to his relatively late start on the road it's going to be a relatively short career at prime age.
 
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AmRacer

Sep 1, 2023
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senna6541 said:
He needs to keep beating Pogi whenever they race on the biggest stage at what could be considered a relatively even playground. Races like RVV, Glasgow Worlds, MSR, PR, the old Strade course, etc. Of course the fact that Pogi can compete against him in these types of races and GT's shows why he's the greatest of all-time. Still, if MVDP can continue to go straight up with Pogi on the road and then add some more MTB World Cups and the WC, not bad. Problem is, due to his relatively late start on the road it's going to be a relatively short career at prime age.
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He's missing MTB Worlds, and Olympics if he can keep up until then.
 
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Lorzenz08

Sep 14, 2019
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Come on guys :
Pedersen had a great day and he is a beast (WC winner, 3x Gent-Wevelgen winner)
WVA is preparing since last year to be in top shape specifically for Flanders and PR
Stuyven is also a beast (MSR winner).

Last year MVDP won with only 1 minute over Luca Mozzato who is a nobody.

This time he just got tired covering EVERY attacks of Pogi until the last one. Its Pogi who played it perfectly. If Pogi had done the same 2023 strategy and only started to attack in the last Karemont run MvDP would maybe have followed.
 
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Kwaremonster

Apr 6, 2023
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senna6541 said:
MVDP won't make excuses, but I will for him. He definitely looked very disappointed - knows he missed a big opp here. With this Spring's form he just needed things to go relatively smoothly to beat Pogi, and between not staying 100% healthy, the crash, and being out of position the 2nd time up, it didn't happen. Hopefully the luck he's typically made for himself the last couple of years comes back next week and he gets number 3 at PR. And hopefully he gets another shot at Pogi next year in top form. He's got to beat Pogi at RVV straight up again to take his legacy to the next level. Can't wait to see him on the MTB this year. The way those guys were flying around the course in Brazil this weekend reminds you why it isn't so easy just to drop in there.
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Agree with this. I do think he could have done some things better tactically, but I don't want to be too harsh on that as he ofter rides so well tactically.

I just hope for him to beat pogacar once in Flanders (not counting 2022 when it was new for pogi). If everything comes together it's possible I think.
 
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dazaau

May 1, 2021
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Kwaremonster said:
I just hope for him to beat pogacar once in Flanders (not counting 2022 when it was new for pogi). If everything comes together it's possible I think.
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Me too, and while difficult I hope to see him do it and believe it is very possible.

Mvdp just ran out of gas, the last time up the Kwaremont Pog was about 12 seconds slower than the last times, he was also pretty ragged by then.

If Mvdp was not:
1. sick in the lead up,
2. did not crash which always takes something from you (especially early in the race so you have hours for it to sink into you),
3. didn't have to chase and close a 50 second gap due the crash,
4. wasn't terribly out of position when Pog first attacked on the Kwaremont ( Pog set his best time and MVDP closed the huge gap that existed before the attack),

Then I think he would have had something left to follow in the Kwaremont. He also didn't seem to race well tactically, wasted some energy. It all adds up and you can't beat the legend that is Pogacar in RVV if you are on the back foot.

Maybe next year, can't wait! - but first, Roubaix which is going to be hectic and great to watch.
 
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Axel Hangleck

Jan 7, 2017
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senna6541 said:
Can't wait to see him on the MTB this year. The way those guys were flying around the course in Brazil this weekend reminds you why it isn't so easy just to drop in there.
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Yeah, it's not Cyclocross....the top guys have skills and can make time on riders who haven't ridden their MTB too recently. We know he has the engine, but the technical side needs refreshing. He's done it before, he needs to do it again.
 
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dazaau

May 1, 2021
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dazaau said:
Me too, and while difficult I hope to see him do it and believe it is very possible.

Mvdp just ran out of gas, the last time up the Kwaremont Pog was about 12 seconds slower than the last times, he was also pretty ragged by then.

If Mvdp was not:
1. sick in the lead up,
2. did not crash which always takes something from you (especially early in the race so you have hours for it to sink into you),
3. didn't have to chase and close a 50 second gap due the crash,
4. wasn't terribly out of position when Pog first attacked on the Kwaremont ( Pog set his best time and MVDP closed the huge gap that existed before the attack),

Then I think he would have had something left to follow in the Kwaremont. He also didn't seem to race well tactically, wasted some energy. It all adds up and you can't beat the legend that is Pogacar in RVV if you are on the back foot.

Maybe next year, can't wait! - but first, Roubaix which is going to be hectic and great to watch.
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I forgot to add, it was doomed anyway this year, the first, second, first, second, pattern demanded a second place this year. #1 next year - you can take it to the bank ;)
 
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