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The Real Football Thread

Page 29 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 22, 2009
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We have fans from all parts here. I'll assume that no one else here saw what I've just witnessed, so I'll objectively describe what happened and invite your opinions on the likely consequences.

Dutch cup game, Ajax vs AZ in the ArenA. It's around the 40th minute of the first half, Ajax is leading 1-0. One demented youth runs onto the pitch and launches himself at the back of the AZ goalie, who sees him in the nick of time and manages to deflect most of the attack. The attacker falls to the ground. The AZ goalie kicks him twice really hard while he's on the ground and with stewards only yards away. The ref then shows the goalie red, after which the AZ manager repeatedly calls his players to leave the field, since not all of them seem keen to do so at first. AZ then officially announce that they refuse to continue the game because their players don't feel safe, and the game is then officially suspended.

What now?:confused:

(I have my own ideas but don't want to influence opinion, so I'll wait for reactions first.)
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Frosty said:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2557...-after-goalkeeper-esteban-alvarado-gets-sent-

Not sure what i think really without seeing the whole incident. Dont have much sympathy with people who run onto the field but you need to see the whole incident to properly pass verdict on what happened.

That report is inaccurate! The idiot attacked him from behind, so he was not trying to kick him in the face! Also, the goalie didn't kick him to the ground, he fell due to the goalie's evasive action and due to his own momentum. The goalie did not kick until the guy was on the ground. It should also be noted that the goalie went mental after seeing the red card and had to be restrained by teammates.

I was asking for opinions about what would happen next? How far will the Dutch FA blame/punish Ajax for 'lax' security, how far will they blame/punish AZ for refusing to continue the game? Will Ajax be 'awarded' the result as it stands at 1-0, will it be the statuatory 3-0, or will the rest of the game be played out from minute 39 with a 1-0 score and AZ with 10 men?
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Amsterhammer said:
We have fans from all parts here. I'll assume that no one else here saw what I've just witnessed, so I'll objectively describe what happened and invite your opinions on the likely consequences.

Dutch cup game, Ajax vs AZ in the ArenA. It's around the 40th minute of the first half, Ajax is leading 1-0. One demented youth runs onto the pitch and launches himself at the back of the AZ goalie, who sees him in the nick of time and manages to deflect most of the attack. The attacker falls to the ground. The AZ goalie kicks him twice really hard while he's on the ground and with stewards only yards away. The ref then shows the goalie red, after which the AZ manager repeatedly calls his players to leave the field, since not all of them seem keen to do so at first. AZ then officially announce that they refuse to continue the game because their players don't feel safe, and the game is then officially suspended.

What now?:confused:

(I have my own ideas but don't want to influence opinion, so I'll wait for reactions first.)

Wat een homo gabbertje, jonge.
Kent zijn eigen krachten niet.

Looks like he even had a knife or something.

I guess that was just one kick too much by the keeper. Otherwise no red.
AZ will normally get the win. But normally the referee has to end the game if he sees too much danger for players when continuing. Don't know. Gabbertje will pay till end of days for that one.
 
Amsterhammer said:
That report is inaccurate! The idiot attacked him from behind, so he was not trying to kick him in the face! Also, the goalie didn't kick him to the ground, he fell due to the goalie's evasive action and due to his own momentum. The goalie did not kick until the guy was on the ground. It should also be noted that the goalie went mental after seeing the red card and had to be restrained by teammates.

I was asking for opinions about what would happen next? How far will the Dutch FA blame/punish Ajax for 'lax' security, how far will they blame/punish AZ for refusing to continue the game? Will Ajax be 'awarded' the result as it stands at 1-0, will it be the statuatory 3-0, or will the rest of the game be played out from minute 39 with a 1-0 score and AZ with 10 men?

The red card is a mistake and should be rescinded - I can't see how the keeper used "excessive force" in the circumstances.

If AZ is your team how do you feel? Your player is attacked by a member of the crowd, defends himself and so your team has to play on with 10 men. Totally unfair and a big incentive for crowd members to attack oppostion players in future.

I feel the game should be replayed from the start in an empty stadium
or awarded to AZ. The fan (and therefore Ajax) are completely in the wrong here and no way should AZ receive any punishment for what happened. Assuming it was an Ajax fan of course....
 
May 6, 2009
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It was an Ajax fan. I agree that the ref shouldn't have sent off the AZ 'keeper, when you have a drunk idiot running at you, how is he supposed to know what the guys intentions are, and questions have to be asked of the security.
 
Sep 7, 2010
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Believe the keeper did one kick too many when the attacker was already on the ground. I do undestand his reaction though. Must be so frustrated.
 
Oct 18, 2009
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Antoine Kombouaré sacked by Leonardo as PSG coach, despite the club leading the ligue 1. Carlo Ancelotti is on top of list of candidates to replace him.
David Beckham will most likely join the team, coming from LA Galaxy.
 
Oct 18, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Odd to sack a manager even though your team is on top of the table.

yeah true but his situation had been unstable and was on the hot seat since the Qatari took over the club. Adding to that, they didn't pass the group stage in the Europa League. And the new owners are looking for a world class manager.
 
"World Class Manager", what the hell does that mean.

Its like dropping a stage actor and hiring Brad Pitt because you want a "world class actor"

Managers are highly overrated.

They get called world class geniuses 1 day when they win the champions league, then can't even get into the competition and fans laugh at their very stupid decisions.
Get called "world class" when they finish 4th then fight relegation a few years later.

Usually the really highly respected ones became "world class" because they had a great team. I considered it a greater achievment when Pep Nandrolone didnt win the Champions League considering what team he has.
 
Oct 18, 2009
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The Hitch said:
"World Class Manager", what the hell does that mean.

Its like dropping a stage actor and hiring Brad Pitt because you want a "world class actor"

Managers are highly overrated.

They get called world class geniuses 1 day when they win the champions league, then can't even get into the competition and fans laugh at their very stupid decisions.
Get called "world class" when they finish 4th then fight relegation a few years later.

Usually the really highly respected ones became "world class" because they had a great team. I considered it a greater achievment when Pep Nandrolone didnt win the Champions League considering what team he has.

I agree with you on most of the points. I just used the term "world class" because this is how it's reported in the media so i'm using their language. So for them, Kombouaré is very local and didn't prove himself internationnally with a bigger team like Ancelotti (although his experience with Chelsea wasn't that great neither)
 
nobilis said:
I agree with you on most of the points. I just used the term "world class" because this is how it's reported in the media so i'm using their language.

I know its the medias language, thats what I was writing against, not you. I remember it recently used (1 or 2 years ago) to say that Sunderland wanted a world class manager, so they hired Steve Bruce.

Heard he got sacked a few weeks ago. So I don't really get it, was he ever "world class".
 
The Hitch said:
I know its the medias language, thats what I was writing against, not you. I remember it recently used (1 or 2 years ago) to say that Sunderland wanted a world class manager, so they hired Steve Bruce.

Heard he got sacked a few weeks ago. So I don't really get it, was he ever "world class".

steve bruce is strange....he always find work and eventually he will fail again but he still gets paid a **** load of money lolzzz..life of being a football manager...lool at sven ericksson.
 
Jul 31, 2010
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zigzag wanderer said:
The red card is a mistake and should be rescinded - I can't see how the keeper used "excessive force" in the circumstances.

If AZ is your team how do you feel? Your player is attacked by a member of the crowd, defends himself and so your team has to play on with 10 men. Totally unfair and a big incentive for crowd members to attack oppostion players in future.

I feel the game should be replayed from the start in an empty stadium
or awarded to AZ. The fan (and therefore Ajax) are completely in the wrong here and no way should AZ receive any punishment for what happened. Assuming it was an Ajax fan of course....

The keeper has been sent off for Violent Conduct. "Excessive Force" is a reason for someone to be sent off for serious foul play if an opponent uses "excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play".

If the referee didn't send off the keeper he would be the one suspended for a few games for a glaring mistake.

The keeper defended himself originally but then kicked the spectator twice while he was on the ground on his back. Simply violent conduct.

It would have been up to the referee to abandon the game if he thought the players weren't safe. The it's up to the football body what it should do and seeing it was still the first half they would probably replay the game. If the manager dragged his players off the field and the referee wanted to keep playing then it's a forfeit 3 - 0.

The last person I would ask an opinion from on any soccer rules is Robbie Slater (the guy in the video discussion on Foxsports). My 8 year old knows the rules better than him. I'm amazed how many International players don't know the rules eg Harry Kewells handball on the goal line at the World Cup. Harry said maybe it should have just been a penalty but not a send off...oh dear.
 
Jul 31, 2010
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The Hitch said:
"World Class Manager", what the hell does that mean.

Its like dropping a stage actor and hiring Brad Pitt because you want a "world class actor"

Managers are highly overrated.

They get called world class geniuses 1 day when they win the champions league, then can't even get into the competition and fans laugh at their very stupid decisions.
Get called "world class" when they finish 4th then fight relegation a few years later.

Usually the really highly respected ones became "world class" because they had a great team. I considered it a greater achievment when Pep Nandrolone didnt win the Champions League considering what team he has.

Couldn't agree more Hitch. Some "World Class" Managers only do well in some of their roles and fail in others no matter how much money they spend as any supporters of Chelsea and Liverpool would know. Wasn't Tottenham glad they sacked Martin Jol for the World Class Juande Ramos!

I'd like to know are there any World Class boards out there. Some Boards appoint and then sack 3 or 4 World Class managers in as many seasons but they all keep their jobs. Why?

World Class managers should be judged on over achieving with the little cattle/resources they have or are the ones that can attract the best cattle without spending the GDP of a small nation in the process.
 
May 6, 2009
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Palermo is a joke of a club and why anybody would want to manage them, unless desperate is astounding. Typical Italian football mentally, you lose a couple of games and it's 'SACK THE MANAGER', and sacking a manager in pre-season, why hire him in the first place? At Roma, Enrique had the audacity to put Totti on the bench against some random team in their Europa League qualifier, they lose and want him gone? How are you supposed to get any stability with attitudes like that?

And I had to laugh at Andrea Agnelli's comment's that Capello's Juventus would have beaten the Inter team that did the treble under Mourinho, 3-0, so good that Juve were never able to achieve that? Build a bridge and get over it.
 
craig1985 said:
Palermo is a joke of a club and why anybody would want to manage them, unless desperate is astounding. Typical Italian football mentally, you lose a couple of games and it's 'SACK THE MANAGER', and sacking a manager in pre-season, why hire him in the first place? At Roma, Enrique had the audacity to put Totti on the bench against some random team in their Europa League qualifier, they lose and want him gone? How are you supposed to get any stability with attitudes like that?

And I had to laugh at Andrea Agnelli's comment's that Capello's Juventus would have beaten the Inter team that did the treble under Mourinho, 3-0, so good that Juve were never able to achieve that? Build a bridge and get over it.

for better or worse i follow palermo and yea zamparini is a d1ck head and a terrible owner.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Handbrake said:
The keeper has been sent off for Violent Conduct. "Excessive Force" is a reason for someone to be sent off for serious foul play if an opponent uses "excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play".

If the referee didn't send off the keeper he would be the one suspended for a few games for a glaring mistake.

The keeper defended himself originally but then kicked the spectator twice while he was on the ground on his back. Simply violent conduct.

It would have been up to the referee to abandon the game if he thought the players weren't safe. The it's up to the football body what it should do and seeing it was still the first half they would probably replay the game. If the manager dragged his players off the field and the referee wanted to keep playing then it's a forfeit 3 - 0.

I agree with you, the referee had no choice, especially after that second kick. However, the Dutch FA, in their wisdom, dismissed the red card. This means that the goalie will not serve any suspension. What that means for any decision about what happens to the remainder of the game, will be announced at an eagerly awaited press conference tomorrow morning. AZ, the team that walked off, wants the whole game replayed 11 vs 11 - well they would, wouldn't they, since they were 1-0 down at the time that the game stopped. What should happen, imho, is that the game should be played out with the existing score and 10 vs 11, since that is what would have happened if they had not decided to walk off - and then claim that they didn't feel safe.

What I expect to happen, however, is that they will decide to play the remainder of the game 11 vs 11 with the existing score of 1-0. If so, we expect Ajax to field a youth team, though that may be no more than wishful thinking.:rolleyes:
 
May 6, 2009
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Do the big Dutch clubs place a lot of importance to Cup competitions or do they take the attitude of a lot of English clubs (ie the big clubs) is resting a lot of their key players and field fringe players, kids etc.?
 
Jun 22, 2009
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craig1985 said:
Do the big Dutch clubs place a lot of importance to Cup competitions or do they take the attitude of a lot of English clubs (ie the big clubs) is resting a lot of their key players and field fringe players, kids etc.?

Unlike the UK, Holland only has one cup competition. No Dutch clubs can permit themselves the luxury of not taking the domestic cup seriously.

Until now, that is. Like almost all Ajax fans, I fervently hope that the club will take a principled stand against this morning's outrageous decision by the Dutch FA, and turn up with a youth team on Jan. 19.

The Dutch FA today decided that the suspended game will be replayed in its entirety behind closed doors on Jan. 19. This means that the perfectly good goal scored by van der Wiel has been 'undone', it was never scored, it no longer exists!:mad: Furthermore, and this was to be expected, Ajax have been fined 10k because a 'supporter' ran onto the pitch. Fair enough.

Today's dreadful decision has, however, opened the floodgates to future cheating and unsportsmanlike conduct. If you think you've been wronged by a bad decision of the ref's, you take your players off the pitch and claim that you no longer felt safe. The ref's decision, which the FA confirmed as having been 'correct', then gets overturned or 'undone', and the game is played over without taking into account the score at the time that the losing team decided to call it a day! Unbelievable.

What's even more unbelievable is that there is no appeal possible agianst this decision. I really hope that Ajax takes this to the CAS, if only to (eventually) prove that this FA decision is biased, arbitrary, and contrary to all commonly accepted precepts of sportsmanship. Bah.:mad:
 

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