The Real Football Thread

[The Hitch]

Whats sad is the sycophantic praise a criminal can get in the media, if only they associate themselves with good old mother football, uniter of people bla bla bla.

Its one of the reasons why ive turned away from the sport.

Lesson to people like Bernie Madoff. Dont stick around in New York. Just buy Manchester United.

Its a very cheap way of getting the media on your side and the devotion of millions of blind to reason fanboys ready to protect your name at all costs.

 

[The Hitch]

I follow Arsenal since 1991 when I was 9 years of age. I followed them through thick and thin so don't be talking about me as if you know me.

Here is an interesting social experiment seeing as how you both played up the value of loyalty, and critiscsed "financial doping", in your post.

If abramovic , had bought arsenal instead (and before anyone starts posting these rumours that he was going to, yes i heard and i dont really care), would you still support them.

Which would prevail, your loyalty to arsenal football club or your dislike of "financial doping".

 

[plooton]

Bernie Madoff - my favourite theme, these corporate sycópatos

2 examples of current Czech political psychopats (now being prosecuted). See their faces

David Ráth and Jaroslav Barták: as you can see in the picture, the second is so narcissistic and pretentious that he acted as cardinal in an unfinished movie. Both presented themselves as brilliant medical doctors, hones, charitable etc...

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Its one of the reasons why ive turned away from the sport.

Why didn't you turn away from cycling then? The entire pro level is based on deals with the devil really. Even more so than Football is. If there was a team advertising a dicatatorial state, the UCI wouldn't care would it? Oh wait....

It's not sports that's ****ed up. Nothing is innocent anymore, and nothing shoud be! The world is quite ****ed up in general, there isn't anything "good" to turn for left really...

 

[The Hitch]

Anyone who stops following their team because he does'nt agree with what they do is just a BS football supporter.

Your club is for life. End of.

People sometimes get annoyed when i play devil's advocate a lot, and i assure you im not trying to be hostile here, just like arguing like the Romans did, so i have a follow up question to that if you don't mind.

What is wrong about Contador or Vino or Ricco fans, who you so often go up against, continuing to give their full unconditional loyalty to their beloved riders.

By your logic they are doing everything they are supposed to and it would be very weak of them not to behave that way, no?

 

[The Hitch]

Just realised. Torres has in the last 23 months won a world cup, a fa cup and a champions league. And he has scored about 15 goals in that period. lol

 

[The Hitch]

There is no problem with the question. I will explain.

I follow Arsenal through thick and thin but I will still criticise their faults in an unbiased way when I see the manager, players or board do wrong. No problem, I do it all the time. Lots of football fans do it with their club but they still follow them for life. They do it because they care about their club. For instance when Eduardo dived for a penalty and cheated against Celtic in the CL I criticised him big time for it. The next week I was cheering for him and hoping he would hit the back of the net.

Not all but some Contador, Vino and Ricco fans refuse to criticise or admit that they done wrong around here. I have no problem with fans sticking with a rider through thick and thin but I do have a problem when I hear them say they have done nothing wrong and they have blind faith. Some Contador and Vino fans say they dont care if he doped. That is something I can't accept. Only the other day a Vino fan said to me doping should be legalised. The Contador fans who admit he done something wrong and have criticised him for it, I have no problem with them whatsoever even if they still follow him when he returns.

Fair enough.

 

[Caruut]

Thanks for all the interesting responses. I must say I enjoy watching football on TV but I very much dislike the general atmosphere in the stadiums. Granted I have not been to many big matches so I don't have much experience to draw from, but my few visits have been enough to really turn me off.

Last September for example I went to see the Champions Leage match between Marseille and Dortmund. I got the cheapest tickets, which was in the "Virage Nord", the most notorious part of the stadium apparently. But before and during the game you were mostly supposed to participate in insulting chants towards the fans of the other team. Usually calling them gay and so on. I have an aversion of chanting anything in large groups, let alone calling people gay which I assume is seen as an insult among these people. It was odd though because people were also impressed by the performances that the other fans did. But then they would go back to calling them gay and so on. Someone told me they were surprised that the fans of Dortmund got placed so closely to the Virage Nord, "if this was the fans of PSG, you would see all kinds of objects flying their way".

Most people were drunk or high, the general atmosphere was quite agressive. Luckily Marseille won 3-0 and there were no controversial decisions in the game, I wouldn't want to know how the atmosphere would have been in that case. After the goals people freak out and there is a giant moshpit, but since it's on ranks and not on flat ground it's freakishly dangerous. During one of these moshpits my friend got his nacklace ripped from his neck and almost got strangled. On the way home I saw the buses of the Dortmund fans, each one escorted by two police vans.

And I'd like to reiterate that this was a very uncontroversial game with half the stadium empty due to renovations and with a very good outcome for the home team. I think it's just sad to see that this kind of group mentality attracts so many people, even if all the group does is insult others, get drunk and do moshpits. If I had kids I wouldn't take them to a game, not even to the safe areas where there is seating, the general atmosphere is just way too hateful and agressive.

I have been to MLB, MLS and NFL games and the atmosphere is completely different. Baseball is completely peaceful and NFL and MLS are a little crazier and people are more drunk but still it all seems like one big party and not some kind of a war between fans. I feel like people really go there to see the sport and to celebrate the sport, rather than get their heads smashed in. Maybe it has to do with the very strict alcohol rules in the US or maybe also with the fact that not many fans can afford to fly across a continent just to see their team play. Maybe it also has to do with the fact that a lot of teams come and go quite quickly so there is no time for a fan "culture" (as they like to call it in Germany) to grow. But when I think about all the hate and violence the word "culture" seems grossly inappropriate!

Strange how people can have such different views. For me, that is what makes a live game real. Singing, chanting, screaming at the referee. It has to do a lot with the fact that football is a very organic game. It has spread and evolved, and there isn't nearly as much top-down control. American sports are far more manufactured and corporate. "Culture" is not just for those who go to the ballet and the opera. Being a fan of a football club is a big thing for many people.

 

[Caruut]

You follow your club for life no matter what, whether it is circumstances you like or dislike. That is just the nature of it. You don't just stop following your team.

snip

Your club is for life. End of.

You can switch teams. I did. I was a massive United fan when I was a kid, and then I started supporting my actual local team. Of course, I still root for United in the title, but I don't support them.

My girlfriend's dad grew up a huge Wednesday fan, but then moved down South. With a job, a wife and three kids, he couldn't go up to Sheffield every 2nd weekend, so went to the nearest club, Barnet, instead just because he really likes live football. You can't go to a club every week and not end up being a fan. He still goes to the derbies up in Sheffield though.

 

[Caruut]

People sometimes get annoyed when i play devil's advocate a lot, and i assure you im not trying to be hostile here, just like arguing like the Romans did, so i have a follow up question to that if you don't mind.

What is wrong about Contador or Vino or Ricco fans, who you so often go up against, continuing to give their full unconditional loyalty to their beloved riders.

By your logic they are doing everything they are supposed to and it would be very weak of them not to behave that way, no?

It is weak of them to pretend they are doing nothing wrong. To admit that they are not perfect but still be loyal is what Gooner is advocating, and I agree. In my opinion, that is far more meaningful than deluded claims that they are innocent.

 

[palmerq]

You can switch teams. I did. I was a massive United fan when I was a kid, and then I started supporting my actual local team. Of course, I still root for United in the title, but I don't support them.

My girlfriend's dad grew up a huge Wednesday fan, but then moved down South. With a job, a wife and three kids, he couldn't go up to Sheffield every 2nd weekend, so went to the nearest club, Barnet, instead just because he really likes live football. You can't go to a club every week and not end up being a fan. He still goes to the derbies up in Sheffield though.

is he sean bean.... actually i tihnk he might be a united supporter :S

 

[Caruut]

is he sean bean.... actually i tihnk he might be a united supporter :S

I prefer not to give out too many details about myself on the web, but I can confirm that my girlfriend's dad is not Sean Bean.

 

[Caruut]

A little something to lighten the mood;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qROMT_N3iw

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Can't say I really cared about the CL final. Disappointed Chelsea won, but what really annoyed me was the suspended players in full head to toe kit celebrating on the field at the end like they'd won it themselves. Pretty classless imo.

 

[Christian]

Can't say I really cared about the CL final. Disappointed Chelsea won, but what really annoyed me was the suspended players in full head to toe kit celebrating on the field at the end like they'd won it themselves. Pretty classless imo.

Well they did contribute in other games and they are part of the team so I can understand it. I didn't watch the celebrations though so I don't know if it was classy or classless. As Jürgen Klopp put it: "Everyone who is part of this team and wore a jersey at least once this season contributed to the championship"

A little something to lighten the mood;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qROMT_N3iw

lol that is funny

Strange how people can have such different views. For me, that is what makes a live game real. Singing, chanting, screaming at the referee. It has to do a lot with the fact that football is a very organic game. It has spread and evolved, and there isn't nearly as much top-down control. American sports are far more manufactured and corporate. "Culture" is not just for those who go to the ballet and the opera. Being a fan of a football club is a big thing for many people.

Yes I see what you mean but I when it "evolves" into violence, hatred and riots that's not such a good evolution ...

 

[Parera]

A victory for pathetic negative football !

Right. I'm sure you can write an angry letter to Chelsea and let them know exactly how you feel.

 

[Parera]

Yep, not just in this game but over a series of games. I cannot think of more undeserving winners, have to go back to Red Star Belgrade in 1990. Maybe there have been others in between but I really cant think of any.

As I said, their name was on the trophy and nothing was going to change that.

And Bayern were deserving? They shrunk in front of goal tonight, truly pathetic. Chelsea even conceded a penalty in extra time and the Bavarians couldn't pull out the win, at HOME need I remind, against a depleted Chelsea side. C'mon, just give them some credit, it's not hard.

 

[Parera]

That was a f****** rotten result.

 

[Parera]

Can't say I really cared about the CL final. Disappointed Chelsea won, but what really annoyed me was the suspended players in full head to toe kit celebrating on the field at the end like they'd won it themselves. Pretty classless imo.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

New coefficient rankings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Current_ranking

 

[simo1733]

And Bayern were deserving? They shrunk in front of goal tonight, truly pathetic. Chelsea even conceded a penalty in extra time and the Bavarians couldn't pull out the win, at HOME need I remind, against a depleted Chelsea side. C'mon, just give them some credit, it's not hard.

The Munich forwards need 20 chances to score but Drogba only needs one.
Robben and Ribery are too interested in scoring for themselves rather than playing Gomez in.
Chelsea aren't the best team in Europe or even England or even London but althogh they play defensive they did score in Barcelona and Munich.
Best team in West London, just about.

 

[Froome19]

You can switch teams. I did. I was a massive United fan when I was a kid, and then I started supporting my actual local team. Of course, I still root for United in the title, but I don't support them.

My girlfriend's dad grew up a huge Wednesday fan, but then moved down South. With a job, a wife and three kids, he couldn't go up to Sheffield every 2nd weekend, so went to the nearest club, Barnet, instead just because he really likes live football. You can't go to a club every week and not end up being a fan. He still goes to the derbies up in Sheffield though.

A lot of my friends support Barnet and i must admit they are quite a good team to support as they seem to narrowly miss relegation to the Blue Square every season, yet I am always offered tickets to their matches and I see no reason in going.

I support United which I get quite a bit of stick for considering I live in London, reason why is because my parents grew up in SA where everyone supports United/Liverpool, yet it is a bit difficult whilst living in London to go up and see matches, I only really manage to get up to OT around twice a season. Yet going to stadiums like White hart lane and Stamford Bridge is much easier.

Really annoyed Chelsea won because I do not believe a team which have proved themselves as not one of the strongest in the PL should be able to win the CL and I think it says a lot about the competition, conversly though the PL is the only league in the world where a team who has not finished in a qualifiying position for the CL has a realistic chance of winning it. Other problem is that the company my dad works for sponsors spurs in cups and so they miss out on a lot of exposure thanks to Chelsea.

 

[Parera]

Really annoyed Chelsea won because I do not believe a team which have proved themselves as not one of the strongest in the PL should be able to win the CL and I think it says a lot about the competition, conversly though the PL is the only league in the world where a team who has not finished in a qualifiying position for the CL has a realistic chance of winning it.

Knockout competitions by virtue aren't algorithms which spit out a "best team" at their conclusion; simply the "last team standing" is the only measure it produces.

This isn't new. Liverpool won the Champions League while limping to a 5th place finish in the Premier League in 2005. AC Milan was 4th place in the final Serie A table when they lifted the trophy in 2007; they also managed third place in Serie A during their successful CL campaign in 2003. Real Madrid was 3rd place in La Liga the year that Zidane hit that ridiculous volley in the 2002 final; also they sputtered to fifth place in the league when they hoisted the trophy two years earlier. Dig through the European Cup years and it's abundantly clear that it's not a given that a club can excel in both their domestic and European campaigns simultaneously.

 

[Froome19]

Knockout competitions by virtue aren't algorithms which spit out a "best team" at their conclusion; simply the "last team standing" is the only measure it produces.

This isn't new. Liverpool won the Champions League while limping to a 5th place finish in the Premier League in 2005. AC Milan was 4th place in the final Serie A table when they lifted the trophy in 2007; they also managed third place in Serie A during their successful CL campaign in 2003. Real Madrid was 3rd place in La Liga the year that Zidane hit that ridiculous volley in the 2002 final; also they sputtered to fifth place in the league when they hoisted the trophy two years earlier. Dig through the European Cup years and it's abundantly clear that it's not a given that a club can excel in both their domestic and European campaigns simultaneously.

Exactly and the CL is supposedly the competition which includes the best teams in the world and demonstrated who are the best teams in the world.

Yet the teams who are winning it are not in fact the best teams, even if Chelsea/Liverpool had not competed in the CL I highly doubt they would have come top3. The flaw is that clubs are required to focus on their domestic leagues and they then will consider the CL a bonus, a big one which many clubs spend a lot of money but still it is merely a subsidary one and that Imo takes away from the competition.

Of course as it is a knockout competition you wont necessarily see the strongest teams in the final everytime, and though that is a shame that is alright. But to see clubs like in 04, is a bit of a mockery of the tournament as it is about clubs other commitments and thus this competition doesnt really deserve its reputation.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

A lot of my friends support Barnet and i must admit they are quite a good team to support as they seem to narrowly miss relegation to the Blue Square every season, yet I am always offered tickets to their matches and I see no reason in going.

I support United which I get quite a bit of stick for considering I live in London, reason why is because my parents grew up in SA where everyone supports United/Liverpool, yet it is a bit difficult whilst living in London to go up and see matches, I only really manage to get up to OT around twice a season. Yet going to stadiums like White hart lane and Stamford Bridge is much easier.

Really annoyed Chelsea won because I do not believe a team which have proved themselves as not one of the strongest in the PL should be able to win the CL and I think it says a lot about the competition, conversly though the PL is the only league in the world where a team who has not finished in a qualifiying position for the CL has a realistic chance of winning it. Other problem is that the company my dad works for sponsors spurs in cups and so they miss out on a lot of exposure thanks to Chelsea.

Like they say eh typical man utd supporter. lol