Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[houtdffan]

A solid start for Remco and his team.
An incredible rider and one who will amass a serious palmares by the end of his career.

However, I do fear that he will struggle to haul that muscular frame over the mountains for 3 weeks. I sincerely hope things go well for him as cycling needs exciting riders like him.
I just have big doubts about his overall chances.

He's smaller than Ullrich. Ulrich was able to get his strudel body over the mountains

 

[Ulle97]

He's smaller than Ullrich. Ulrich was able to get his strudel body over the mountains

We'll see.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

We'll see.

I don’t think the future will change that Remco is smaller than Ullrich or that Ullrich did get over the climbs pretty well

 

[Ulle97]

I don’t think the future will change that Remco is smaller than Ullrich or that Ullrich did get over the climbs pretty well

That's for sure.
I think you understand what I mean though

 

[Ripper]

I don’t think the future will change that Remco is smaller than Ullrich or that Ullrich did get over the climbs pretty well

Ullrich was also supercharged beyond belief (the rest is for a different sub forum), and so is perhaps not the best comparison.

 

[Netserk]

and so is perhaps not the best comparison.

Why not?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

14th in the sprint today!

 

[Riek s]

to be fair, besides a few exceptions (vingegaard <60kg, pantani <60kg) most tour winners were heavier or more or less the same than Remco. (purely weight, not talking about height/weight)

 

[Oldermanish]

He's smaller than Ullrich. Ulrich was able to get his strudel body over the mountains

Ullrich was very lean when he was a serious contender. He also had enough rocket fuel in him to diesel his way up those climbs.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Impressive result 14th, looked great near the front, but by the same merit wtf is he doing

Just roll in in 60th

 

[Red Rick]

to be fair, besides a few exceptions (vingegaard <60kg, pantani <60kg) most tour winners were heavier or more or less the same than Remco. (purely weight, not talking about height/weight)

I think at this point the Armstrong era and befoer is useless in talking about what body build is viable for a GT winner or TdF winner.

I don't love using PCS weights, but most of the recent top climbers are in the BMI ~20 range, with the most common height and weight being 175-177cm and a weight in the low 60s.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

to be fair, besides a few exceptions (vingegaard <60kg, pantani <60kg) most tour winners were heavier or more or less the same than Remco. (purely weight, not talking about height/weight)

The entire point is that weight is in relation to height.

 

[Riek s]

I think at this point the Armstrong era and befoer is useless in talking about what body build is viable for a GT winner or TdF winner.

I don't love using PCS weights, but most of the recent top climbers are in the BMI ~20 range, with the most common height and weight being 175-177cm and a weight in the low 60s.

I know i was referring to fignon, lemond, merckx,

Body Size Tables of Tour de France Riders

www.topendsports.com

he has a BMI of 21.5 @ 63kg


Not saying he can't be lighter (actually pantani was the same height and 6kg less), but i don't know if it would be such a huge issue.. if that is his sweet spot where he has most power/endurance. That is something he should know better than us. Or he will figure it out eventually during his carreer.

 

[Bonimenier]

The entire point is that weight is in relation to height.

Maybe it should be seen in relation to power output

 

[Red Rick]

I know i was referring to fignon, lemond, merckx,

Body Size Tables of Tour de France Riders

www.topendsports.com

he has a BMI of 21.5 @ 63kg


Not saying he can't be lighter (actually pantani was the same height and 6kg less), but i don't know if it would be such a huge issue.. if that is his sweet spot where he has most power/endurance. That is something he should know better than us. Or he will figure it out eventually during his carreer.

The question is one of body type, and how that interacts with the other parameters.

Mainly I'm trying to understand why it appears to be better to be taller at the same weight, i.e. why BMI matters.

 

[Pinot's goat]

A solid start for Remco and his team.
An incredible rider and one who will amass a serious palmares by the end of his career.

However, I do fear that he will struggle to haul that muscular frame over the mountains for 3 weeks. I sincerely hope things go well for him as cycling needs exciting riders like him.
I just have big doubts about his overall chances.

Also he would be very boring as just a stage hunter since he would destroy the opposition he would get in breaks.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The question is one of body type, and how that interacts with the other parameters.

Mainly I'm trying to understand why it appears to be better to be taller at the same weight, i.e. why BMI matters.

This?

 

[Red Rick]

This?

A little bit. Needing to generate less force for the same momentum can be good, but that also has a trade off with the inertia of said limbs.

Same time, bigger guys should mean bigger chest, bigger cardiovascular system, but also longer distance for blood and thus oxygen to travel, yadayada.

There's a lot of small things that are hard to quantify. Scientific literature IIRC is prety clear about a correlation between leg length and rider type i.e. sprinters have shorter legs than time trialists.

Finally this all doesn't include intracellular and intramuscular factors, which is kind of a black box that's super important, but I'm also kind of reluctant to just assume differences in that area are gonna explain Evenepoels rather peculiar skillset.

 

[Sandisfan]

Evenepoel said he did 1km pulls to keep the pace high enough. Good interview.

Remco Evenepoel tevreden na ploegentijdrit: "Dit is een heel goede start" | sporza

Remco Evenepoel verloor met Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl 14 seconden op dagwinnaar Jumbo-Visma. "We hadden heel graag gewonnen, maar 14 seconden verliezen is niet extreem veel", zei de kopman van The Wolfpack.

sporza.be

Remco Evenepoel lost 14 seconds to day winner Jumbo-Visma with Quick Step-Alpha Vinyl. "We would have loved to win, but losing 14 seconds is not extremely much," said The Wolfpack's leader.

"It was great fun," Evenepoel said. "We didn't have men like Asgreen, Lampaert and Cattaneo here. You can go for the stage win with them, but that was not the goal for this Vuelta."

Evenepoel was the big engine in the team time trial. "I did long turns of a kilometer along the way. That was necessary to keep the speed high."

"Just after the intermediate point (after 11 kilometres) we had a weak moment, we lost some time there. But for the rest we arranged the time trial well."

Evenepoel is satisfied with the result. "This is a very good start. Losing 14 seconds in 14 kilometers is not extremely much. The boys drove the perfect time trial."

In the end, Evenepoel crossed the line as 1st of his team. "Last minute we said in the meeting that I would drive the last half kilometer if I was the strongest of the team."

If Quick Step had won, Evenepoel would have been the first to wear the red leader's jersey. "But in that case we already had a plan that I would finish quite far in the sprint tomorrow so that the leader's jersey went to a teammate."

With his small CDA and the small draft he has it's almost like he was doing an ITT a few feet in front of his team who were doing a TTT! LOL

 

[Extinction]

Was reading this article on him in la Gazzetta dello Sport this morning and, apart from misquoting his weight as 61 kg, at 1.71 m in the sidebar, which was his weight at last year's Giro (whereas it is stated correctly as 63 kg in the article), something occurred to me. Remco himself, following the line of thought of his trainer, maintains that his weight of 61 kg at last year's Giro came at the expense of power: "My preparation for the Vuelta has been completely different compared to the Giro. The power to weight relationship is better. In 2021 I weighed less, but I was missing the necessary power. Now my weight is a bit higher and I have it."

Ok, however, and this is my query, did he perhaps not have the sufficient power to weight ratio at last year's Giro, because, as he and everyone else knows, he was "robbed" of nine months after mid-August Lombardia and thus his preparation was simply rushed and woefully inadequite, as he hadn't even raced once since the accident, and not because his weight was too low?

In other words, much ado is being made about the actual weight issue, which is only a difference of 2 kg, and not about the dreadful circumstances that preceeded his GT debut last year. Frankly this is perplexing, as one would imagine that the lack of power experiencd at 2 kg less last year would be at the same weight overcome/compensated by adequite prep and another year's racing in the legs this time around. Unless at his present weight he gains massively in watts to kg ratio, it's difficult to image, again with the right prep and racing beforehand, he would not enjoy the watts of today at last year's Giro weight. But evidently, according to the line of thinking at QS, this is not the case.

 

[Red Rick]

Was reading this article on him in la Gazzetta dello Sport this morning and, apart from misquoting his weight as 61 kg, at 1.71 m in the sidebar, which was his weight at last year's Giro (whereas it is stated correctly as 63 kg in the article), something occurred to me. Remco himself, following the line of thought of his trainer, maintains that his weight of 61 kg at last year's Giro came at the expense of power: "My preparation for the Vuelta has been completely different compared to the Giro. The power to weight relationship is better. In 2021 I weighed less, but I was missing the necessary power. Now my weight is a bit higher and I have it."

Ok, however, and this is my query, did he perhaps not have the sufficient power to weight ratio at last year's Giro, because, as he and everyone else knows, he was "robbed" of nine months after mid-August Lombardia and thus his preparation was simply rushed and woefully inadequite, as he hadn't even raced once since the accident, and not because his weight was too low?

In other words, much ado is being made about the actual weight issue, which is only a difference of 2 kg, and not about the dreadful circumstances that preceeded his GT debut last year. Frankly this is perplexing, as one would imagine that the lack of power experiencd at 2 kg less last year would be at the same weight overcome/compensated by adequite prep and another year's racing in the legs this time around. Unless at his present weight he gains massively in watts to kg ratio, it's difficult to image, again with the right prep and racing beforehand, he would not enjoy the watts of today at last year's Giro weight. But evidently, according to the line of thinking at QS, this is not the case.

I think they didn't know wtf happened at first and then scrambled for explanations as they went, and so the explanation changed as he gained weight again?

I think the super unprepared thing didn't make super much sense with his decent performances in the first week.

I also would expect the weight gain would improve his recovery and TT before it would improve his W/kg

 

[Mayomaniac]

Looking at how skinny his upper body looked at Donostia I find it hard to belief that he's actually 63kg at 171cm.
I also have to agree with Red Rick that it would probably improve his recovery and his TT, not his power to weight ratio.
For someone like him 61kg shouldn't be so low that his power to weight ratio starts getting worse.
Let's wait and see how he does at the Vuelta, but right now I get the feeling that the team doesn't really know how to develop him into a gc rider...

 

[Extinction]

I think they didn't know wtf happened at first and then scrambled for explanations as they went, and so the explanation changed as he gained weight again?

I think the super unprepared thing didn't make super much sense with his decent performances in the first week.

I also would expect the weight gain would improve his recovery and TT before it would improve his W/kg

Well I think his talent alone carried him through the first ten days, but his lack of base and depth, which only comes from proper prep and racing beforehand, ultimately did him in deeper in the race. This, more than his weight, to me was the critical issue. Thus I think the being super unprepared was actually the reason. At any rate, we'll know more later in the Vuelta.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Well I think his talent alone carried him through the first ten days, but his lack of base and depth, which only comes from proper prep and racing beforehand, ultimately did him in deeper in the race. This, more than his weight, to me was the critical issue. Thus I think the being super unprepared was actually the reason. At any rate, we'll know more later in the Vuelta.

Also, sending him to the Giro without having ridden in the bunch since his crash was really stupid. He often lost his position and had to waste lots of energy.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Was reading this article on him in la Gazzetta dello Sport this morning and, apart from misquoting his weight as 61 kg, at 1.71 m in the sidebar, which was his weight at last year's Giro (whereas it is stated correctly as 63 kg in the article), something occurred to me. Remco himself, following the line of thought of his trainer, maintains that his weight of 61 kg at last year's Giro came at the expense of power: "My preparation for the Vuelta has been completely different compared to the Giro. The power to weight relationship is better. In 2021 I weighed less, but I was missing the necessary power. Now my weight is a bit higher and I have it."

Ok, however, and this is my query, did he perhaps not have the sufficient power to weight ratio at last year's Giro, because, as he and everyone else knows, he was "robbed" of nine months after mid-August Lombardia and thus his preparation was simply rushed and woefully inadequite, as he hadn't even raced once since the accident, and not because his weight was too low?

In other words, much ado is being made about the actual weight issue, which is only a difference of 2 kg, and not about the dreadful circumstances that preceeded his GT debut last year. Frankly this is perplexing, as one would imagine that the lack of power experiencd at 2 kg less last year would be at the same weight overcome/compensated by adequite prep and another year's racing in the legs this time around. Unless at his present weight he gains massively in watts to kg ratio, it's difficult to image, again with the right prep and racing beforehand, he would not enjoy the watts of today at last year's Giro weight. But evidently, according to the line of thinking at QS, this is not the case.

The first problem is, is that he/they keep juggling weight numbers. The day before he started the Giro, he was below 60kg. Then the morning of the Giro, he was little over 60kg. Now, a year and a half late, he was 61 kg that day.

I think they didn't know wtf happened at first and then scrambled for explanations as they went, and so the explanation changed as he gained weight again?

I think the super unprepared thing didn't make super much sense with his decent performances in the first week.

I also would expect the weight gain would improve his recovery and TT before it would improve his W/kg

Why wouldn't it make sense? We saw the same happen with Van der Poel this year. Short prep during winter, leading up to his first moneytime races. Winning RVV, and the rest of the season so far very much below what we have come to expect from him, including his Giro which was nothing more but ''passable'' for his standards (whoever thinks that was prime Van der Poel is delusional). When you are missing base form, you can still have a peak, but it clips right after into an abyss.

Looking at how skinny his upper body looked at Donostia I find it hard to belief that he's actually 63kg at 171cm.
I also have to agree with Red Rick that it would probably improve his recovery and his TT, not his power to weight ratio.
For someone like him 61kg shouldn't be so low that his power to weight ratio starts getting worse.
Let's wait and see how he does at the Vuelta, but right now I get the feeling that the team doesn't really know how to develop him into a gc rider...

This is exactly what i have been saying for months.