Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Volderke]

I agree and acknowledged both these points in the post to which you're responding.

just saying he's a thermostat for the team. He's a thermometer in front of the camera.

 

[Riek s]

Yes, I gave my opinion, and others will have their own. All good, it's subjective and I won't argue with someone who has another POV on Remco or leadership. But I'm pretty experienced with leading teams and have strong opinions.

Sure, i think this forum is full of people with a strong opinion though (but i respect your point and its completely valid, i just don't think it will ever fit Remco)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1696218296507314651

View: https://twitter.com/EvenepoelRemco/status/1696218296507314651

 

[red_flanders]

just saying he's a thermostat for the team. He's a thermometer in front of the camera.

That may well be true. Like I said, when he's calm he says and does the right things. When he's stressed, his natural reactions come out just like with everyone else. For me, he'd be a much more effective leader and likable rider if he can grow into controlling his impulses when he's stressed.

 

[Volderke]

That may well be true. Like I said, when he's calm he says and does the right things. When he's stressed, his natural reactions come out just like with everyone else. For me, he'd be a much more effective leader and likable rider if he can grow into controlling his impulses when he's stressed.

just one example: Just note how much he calmed down compared to the other interview.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtxR_YcqnE

 

[red_flanders]

Sure, i think this forum is full of people with a strong opinion though (but i respect your point and its completely valid, i just don't think it will ever fit Remco)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1696218296507314651

View: https://twitter.com/EvenepoelRemco/status/1696218296507314651

Yeah not sure. I was incredibly impulsive when I was younger and changed with experience. I'll always be the same person, but people do grow. We'll see.

 

[roundabout]

Look, you emphasized the mistake clearly as a put-down in deprecatory fashion, not in terms of human error, however unfortunate for him. And who is encouraging inattentiveness? The fact that you make such a misguided remark only underscores the deprecatory way you view the mistake, as something blameworthy - and not just in the outcome, but morally on him - which is where I totally disagree with you.

Feel free to disagree as much as you want, but try to actually discuss the points I am making instead of making most of your responses some kind of moral judgement of my words.

Also, it is an open forum (and thus this thread is not limited to people with a singular point of view) and I think it's not that unreasonable to be critical of an unforced unintentional error regardless of however much you want to suppress that criticism by hiding behind your faux moralism (see, I can ascribe meaning to other people's posts too just because I feel like doing so).

Edit: and it's faux moralism, because you seemingly only have it in it for me, not for anyone

else calling it a dumb error

Edit 2: notion that I view the mistake as being morally blameworthy is such a disgusting misrepresentation of my words that I am seriously considering whether it makes any sense to have any conversation with you on any subject in the future as you would just twist anything that I would write far beyond it's original meaning

 

[red_flanders]

just one example: Just note how much he calmed down compared to the other interview.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtxR_YcqnE

Yes, this is my point entirely. He does it right when he's not stressed. That's the easier part. Showing leadership and composure when the fire is hot is the hard part.

 

[Volderke]

Some insights into the finishing speed and gradient.

La Vuelta 3 🇦🇩🥇🔴 - Remco E's 157.1 km bike ride

We are back 🐺 #11

www.strava.com

At the finish: approx. 42K/hr, at minus 6%.
The finish was on the parking lot (just after he stopped pedalling).

After the finish the gradient shows minus 10%.
He slowed down to approx. half his finishing speed (between 20-25K/hr) before he crashes.

 

[Extinction]

I have a few thoughts on Remco's behavior over the last few days.

First of all, on the TTT, that was absurd on the part of the organizers. Yes, if sunny and it was likely going to be, the light would have been fine and worked well on TV. Clearly it was way too dark during the last few teams' rides, and it was dumb and dangerous. So I get why he and others were pissed. They should have been.

What I don't like is that as a leader, I want him (or any other leader) to be the calm in the storm, not adding to it. Be the thermostat, not the thermometer. Set the tone. Calm your teammates and focus them on the task at hand. Maybe he's doing a lot of that, I certainly don't know what all goes on behind the scenes. But I don't like to see him losing it at the end of the stage in public like that. Yes, say your piece and give the organization the business, but do it in a more measured, more effective way. Ranting is not a sign of leadership. Sometimes you have to speak out bluntly and directly, but it should be intentional. He's just reacting.

Today his first reaction was to again blame someone else for his problem. While there MAY be a small case to be made that folks were too close to the finish line, he had plenty of time to stop. Totally his fault, and his first reaction is to start complaining. Take responsibility. Admit when you make mistakes, and laugh about your own stupidity. That's what I want from a leader, not more blaming and controversy. Take responsibility even if it's not your fault. You're the leader of the team and now the race.

I like the kid a lot, he's got spirit, and I like the way he rides. He rides like a freaking champion, he gives his all and I like a certain amount of emotion. His celebration today told me he's got a lot of feeling about this race, and he rode a smart, powerful, and impressive race. I don't want him neutered, I want him to be a leader.

He's got some growing to do, and maybe he can adjust his behavior. But his first inclinations when he's stressed are still immature. Just dial it back a bit and focus that energy into getting your team fired up, cared for, and behind you. He's still too focused on himself in times of stress. When he's calm he says and does the right things.

Where is the dotted freakin line! Because I want to sign this. Learning to be a gentleman in times of adversity demonstrstes more leadership and earns more respect, than throwing the enth tantrum. But bimbo certainly has quite the character.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Remco even beat Vingegaard on this first MTF. Congrats - very impressive.

Fitting song, dedicated to Remco - Carpenters‘ „Top of the world“:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt1MqAZ9XHw&pp=ygUQdG9wIG9mIHRoZSB3b3JsZA%3D%3D

 

[joseph89]

Remco being lulled into a false sense of security by Jumbo-Visma similar to pogacar at the tour.

 

[Didinho]

First MTF and he got his victory already. Good for the moral, all incidents aside. Now try to loose the jersey and ride defensively again like he said beforehand. Did it perfectly today, waiting for the sprint. Although I would’ve thought he started to early, but he was just that strong. Sprinting them off your wheel. I’m happy with his form, gonna be a good 3 weeks to support him!

 

[King Boonen]

Bikeability Scotland - Homepage - Cycling Scotland

The national cycle training programme for school children. Supporting the next generation of confident and responsible road users.

www.cycling.scot

He should have popped in while he was over here.

 

[Extinction]

Feel free to disagree as much as you want, but try to actually discuss the points I am making instead of making most of your responses some kind of moral judgement of my words.

Also, it is an open forum (and thus this thread is not limited to people with a singular point of view) and I think it's not that unreasonable to be critical of an unforced unintentional error regardless of however much you want to suppress that criticism by hiding behind your faux moralism (see, I can ascribe meaning to other people's posts too just because I feel like doing so).

Edit: and it's faux moralism, because you seemingly only have it in it for me, not for anyone

else calling it a dumb error

Edit 2: notion that I view the mistake as being morally blameworthy is such a disgusting misrepresentation of my words that I am seriously considering whether it makes any sense to have any conversation with you on any subject in the future as you would just twist anything that I would write far beyond it's original meaning

Don't converse with me then, that's up to you. I discussed your points, which began with a sarcastically denigrating remark, "Riders who want to celebrate first and think about their own safety later", which assumes (rather inanely) that, after a damaging fall, one didn't care about one's own safety first. This, again objectively, places blame on moral responsibility over human error. To then call me 😂 out for "faux moralism", is precisely a spin doctor method. As you took the moral high ground, which you then tried to correct by saying it was unintentional, something that clearly didn't factor into your original position, which was nothing less then having a dig. "I do not see what happened as a reason to encourage inattentiveness" is another example of faux moralism, because it merely tries to pass off a dig for self-righteous concern. That's especially because nobody was encouraging inattentiveness (how this was even a concern is baffling). I thus find it comical and absurd that you accuse me of disgusting misrepresentation. Or are you speaking Greek?

 

[Big Doopie]

First MTF and he got his victory already. Good for the moral, all incidents aside. Now try to loose the jersey and ride defensively again like he said beforehand. Did it perfectly today, waiting for the sprint. Although I would’ve thought he started to early, but he was just that strong. Sprinting them off your wheel. I’m happy with his form, gonna be a good 3 weeks to support him!

Also got to save energy for the real goal of the end of the season: Lombardia.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

First MTF and he got his victory already. Good for the moral, all incidents aside. Now try to loose the jersey and ride defensively again like he said beforehand. Did it perfectly today, waiting for the sprint. Although I would’ve thought he started to early, but he was just that strong. Sprinting them off your wheel. I’m happy with his form, gonna be a good 3 weeks to support him!

Remco recently has gained that much explosivity, it‘s incredible. This was his only weakness - now he‘s more explosive than all the other GC guys, maybe even more explosive than Pogacar.

This one second, he gained today (besides bonus seconds), tells so much. Maybe not even Pog would have gained this second, today. Remco now maybe has the biggest engine of them all. Endurance, power, acceleration, everything perfect. But he needs to be this good - supertalents like Ayuso and Uijtdebroeks are not too far behind, and certainly still will improve enormously…

 

[Big Doopie]

Remco recently has gained that much explosivity, it‘s incredible. This was his only weakness - now he‘s more explosive than all the other GC guys, maybe even more explosive than Pogacar.

While I don’t disagree.

I think much in a finish like today is who is freshest. He said he felt great. He looked easier than anyone else today throughout the climb. Everyone else was rolling their shoulders. If u have been the least in the red u will have more to sprint with.

Hoping it stays that way and that the crash will not be felt in the Pyrenees…

 

[Didinho]

Remco recently has gained that much explosivity, it‘s incredible. This was his only weakness - now he‘s more explosive than all the other GC guys, maybe even more explosive than Pogacar.

This one second, he gained today (besides bonus seconds), tells so much. Maybe not even Pog would have gained this second, today. Remco now maybe has the biggest engine of them all. Endurance, power, acceleration, everything perfect. But he needs to be this good - supertalents like Ayuso and Uijtdebroeks are not too far behind, and certainly still will improve enormously…

Yeah he worked a lot on his sprints the last years but after a mountain it’s mostly down to have more in the legs when the sprint starts. You take better positions easier and got more left for the sprint. Indeed he got a good kick now, but I don’t think it’s better than Pogi’s. Hope we can see them battling it out next year in such sprints.

 

[peterfin]

Also got to save energy for the real goal of the end of the season: Lombardia.

Do you really want to see him with a moustache?

 

[Extinction]

Remco recently has gained that much explosivity, it‘s incredible. This was his only weakness - now he‘s more explosive than all the other GC guys, maybe even more explosive than Pogacar.

This one second, he gained today (besides bonus seconds), tells so much. Maybe not even Pog would have gained this second, today. Remco now maybe has the biggest engine of them all. Endurance, power, acceleration, everything perfect. But he needs to be this good - supertalents like Ayuso and Uijtdebroeks are not too far behind, and certainly still will improve enormously…

Yea I can't believe just how good he was today, because he recently won the WCTT, which means it may not be a far stretch that he has the biggest engine of them all. Still, not to get ahead of oneself, let's see how he handles the multi-mountain Tourmalet and Angrilu stages. Vingo wasn't bad and his real strength should be on those very stages. With Roglic it's difficult to say. A group summit finish like this is his bread and butter. I was frankly surprised he didn't win. But it's still a long, long race. At any rate, Remco was a beast today.

 

[Riek s]

Wouldn't read to much into it though. Roglic was boxed in and he started his sprint in the correct time. Yes it was brilliantly done and strong, but that doesn't mean he is faster than Roglic or Pogacar. But its good that he can finish like this, it really gives him an extra dimension to compete against those others.

 

[Extinction]

Wouldn't read to much into it though. Roglic was boxed in and he started his sprint in the correct time. Yes it was brilliantly done and strong, but that doesn't mean he is faster than Roglic or Pogacar. But its good that he can finish like this, it really gives him an extra dimension to compete against those others.

If he can take a win like this, ride away on a really tough MTF or at least stay with top shape Vingo and Pog, and be the best TTer in the world, well that's practically an invincible set of skills. Seems like we have two out of three so far.

 

[joseph89]

Who we trying to gift the red jersey too on Thursday, Romo (2:39) or Zana (4:01)!?!

 

[Gargamel35]

Yeah he's got everything except a set of eyes in front.

 

[Big Doopie]

Yea I can't believe just how good he was today, because he recently won the WCTT, which means it may not be a far stretch that he has the biggest engine of them all. Still, not to get ahead of oneself, let's see how he handles the multi-mountain Tourmalet and Angrilu stages. Vingo wasn't bad and his real strength should be on those very stages. With Roglic it's difficult to say. A group summit finish like this is his bread and butter. I was frankly surprised he didn't win. But it's still a long, long race. At any rate, Remco was a beast today.

the world ITT was not bad training for the longer climbs because it was so long itself, it was a similar length effort as those climbs.

he himself appeared relieved that he was able to do this at high altitude, however.

we'll see. the longer climbs in succession is definitely a question and where Vingo rules. but he keeps answering the questions one by one...

and the 20+% gradients of Angliru where his aero skin will not be such an advantage. Bwahahaha. skeletor could definitely still rule the roost.