The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[Arnout]

Are we back to believing in miracles then? What's this different from Armstrong winning his pro worlds? And Nelissen won a few years further down the doping road. Not sure a random clean pro is supposed to win the amateur worlds so convincingly. Nice fairytale though. I watched those worlds live. Just working from memory, but he seemed by far the best rider, recovering well from efforts. Keeping on going.
A little bit convenient to only start doping after your most impressive race. Like Leipheimer quitting the program before his strongest races. Or Armstrong going clean to podium the TdF as an old come back guy.

Of course, he could be lying still. I don't know, I wasn't there. Personally I have enough reason to believe him.

But then if it is your belief that a clean rider can never win a race of any importance, so be it, no need for me to start a conversation anymore. It's a waste of energy discussing with someone who starts analyzing everything using a few propositions. Too close-minded for me.

 

[hrotha]

Well well, I think this is the earliest attested use of organized blood transfusions during a GT, then. The PDM debacle of 1991 could have been due to poor storage and/or handling of blood bags (do people believe the Intralipid theory?).

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well another Dutch hypocritical PDM house of cards where Breukink was active is also falling apart.

wednesday Jan 23, 2013, 00:26 > http:/nos.nl

if one thing it confirms pdm didn't use epo. so breukink I guess was a true victim of the era that came about

 

[roundabout]

Woah, hand-written notes from 1988.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

The biggest question is : were they using EPO in 1988 ? Rooks and Theunisse great improvement that year would finally find an explanation.
Hope more details about their program soon.

they weren't. their doctor confirmed. they did use about anything else though, but that's no surprise

 

[Franklin]

Well well, I think this is the earliest attested use of organized blood transfusions during a GT, then. The PDM debacle of 1991 could have been due to poor storage and/or handling of blood bags (do people believe the Intralipid theory?).

Back then I (and my brother^^) said it were botched transfusions, but that never was said in the general press. As we didn't have the internetz I have no idea how widespread my theory was^^. Intralipid makes no sense at all. =>

That said, they were quacks, so it could be Intralipid after all.

 

[Franklin]

if one thing it confirms pdm didn't use epo. so breukink I guess was a true victim of the era that came about

1988 does not equal 1990.

If anything I doubt there would have been any moral qualms at all. if they could get Epo they almost certainly would have administered it.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Well well, I think this is the earliest attested use of organized blood transfusions during a GT, then. The PDM debacle of 1991 could have been due to poor storage and/or handling of blood bags (do people believe the Intralipid theory?).

the intrapilid story seems very reasonable and also their doctor confirmed this every time. they had so much experience with bloodbags and keeping other doping in check. why would they f*** that up in 1991 all of a sudden

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

1988 does not equal 1990.

If anything I doubt there would have been any moral qualms at all. if they could get Epo they almost certainly would have administered it.

yes but they didn't have it

also note knetemann was the only guy in their 88 team that didn't use anything. I like that

 

[Franklin]

the intrapilid story seems very reasonable and also their doctor confirmed this every time. they had so much experience with bloodbags and keeping other doping in check. why would they f*** that up in 1991 all of a sudden

Intralipid isn't reasonable. It amounts to about 1 sandwich of extra energy, which is almost certainly negated by the discomfort of having to sleep with an IV (It was administered in their sleep if I remember well).

Intralipid is only reasonable as it's not doping perse and thus not directly illegal.

 

[hrotha]

the intrapilid story seems very reasonable and also their doctor confirmed this every time. they had so much experience with bloodbags and keeping other doping in check. why would they f*** that up in 1991 all of a sudden

Nobody ****s up until they do. People test positive because they **** up after years of getting it right. As for why the doctor would confirm it was the Intralipid, it's simple: it wasn't a banned substance.

 

[Franklin]

yes but they didn't have it

I'm sorry, but unless there is compelling evidence we do not know if they do or didn't have epo.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'm sorry, but unless there is compelling evidence we do not know if they do or didn't have epo.

if they had the article would've provided. as that would;ve been way bigger news. anyone can see this is desperate attempt by nrc to get some kind of doping story out. and now they are already going back to the 80s and pdm

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Nobody ****s up until they do. People test positive because they **** up after years of getting it right. As for why the doctor would confirm it was the Intralipid, it's simple: it wasn't a banned substance.

the riders were sick though, if they were bloodbags or transfusions gone bad they would've been hospitalized as it's very dangerous. also note that alcala wasn't sick and didn't feel bad at all. so either he was clean or he was immune for whatever caught them(badly kept intrapilid or whatever)

 

[hrotha]

the riders were sick though, if they were bloodbags or transfusions gone bad they would've been hospitalized as it's very dangerous. also note that alcala wasn't sick and didn't feel bad at all. so either he was clean or he was immune for whatever caught them(badly kept intrapilid or whatever)

That depends on how bad the blood was. Hamilton tells about a botched transfusion in his book, and the immediate effects weren't *that* serious.

 

[workingclasshero]

esafosfina= Glutammine, Italian brand(no info in Dutch which is amusing).

ere y go kid http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine

and for the rest of us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine

 

[Lanark]

Looks like NRC Handelsblad will have a new article this afternoon.

Thomas Dekker (classicomano Luigi) and Remmert Wielinga were clients of Fuentes. Anonymous source that says Fuentes told him he 'saved Contador for Spanish cycling.'

 

[Arnout]

Save as in provided with stuff or made evidence disappear or didn't give dope?

 

[Lanark]

Save as in provided with stuff or made evidence disappear or didn't give dope?

Your first suggestion.

Tweet from Zonneveld (I assume you read dutch): Anonieme bron vertelt over ontmoeting met Fuentes qwa. Hij zei: 'Ik heb Alberto Contador gespaard voor het Spaanse wielrennen.'

We´ll have to wait a couple of hours for the full story.

 

[hrotha]

Amazing how much Fuentes likes to brag and how little is known about his activities.

 

[theyoungest]

Your first suggestion.

Tweet from Zonneveld (I assume you read dutch): Anonieme bron vertelt over ontmoeting met Fuentes qwa. Hij zei: 'Ik heb Alberto Contador gespaard voor het Spaanse wielrennen.'

We´ll have to wait a couple of hours for the full story.

Not the first suggestion, I would guess. This witness probably kept his mouth sealed to protect Contador, i.e. to save him for Spanish cycling.

 

[sniper]

Your first suggestion.

Tweet from Zonneveld (I assume you read dutch): Anonieme bron vertelt over ontmoeting met Fuentes qwa. Hij zei: 'Ik heb Alberto Contador gespaard voor het Spaanse wielrennen.'

We´ll have to wait a couple of hours for the full story.

even in dutch that sentence is so ambiguous that it won't really worry Dirty. (unless the full story has more details)

does anybody know what cards Fuentes is going to play in court in the next weeks? Is he going to implicate people such as Saiz or will he choose for the option to not name any names?

 

[hrotha]

Not the first suggestion, I would guess. This witness probably kept his mouth sealed to protect Contador, i.e. to save him for Spanish cycling.

Worth mentioning that Contador was the only rider Fuentes went out of his way to deny working with at the time. Contador wasn't a big name at the time, but he was a huge prospect, and pretty much all the Liberty young guns (AC, LLS, Barredo, Davis) were protected one way or another.

 

[Arnout]

even in dutch that sentence is so ambiguous that it won't really worry Dirty. (unless the full story has more details)

does anybody know what cards Fuentes is going to play in court in the next weeks? Is he going to implicate people such as Saiz or will he choose for the option to not name any names?

I doubt he will call names. Once he starts doing that, there's nothing stopping others from telling about his practices.

 

[airstream]

When Fuentes served Thomas Dekker? 2006 and 2007? It means Ufe never stopped his doping practice...